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Both with the rules for Inquisitor lords and Marneus Calgar's Chapter trait to allow all space marines to choose to pass or fail their leadership tests.
In 4th edition this would be a way to stay in combat without testing and without taking wounds. However in 5th edition does it still allow that?
The no retreat rules says that any fearless models or models that would normally automatically pass morale checks due to a special rule are subject to the rule. Would Iron will or the God of War chapter tactic be subject to this?
It says auto pass, Iron Will/God of War is you choose to pass.
Or does it follow under the rule, so you could either choose to pass and take wounds or fail and risk sweeping advance (in SM case, take wounds if you don't disengage)
I just wanted everybody else take on this
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
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They would not take additional wounds. As you say, choosing if you want to pass or fail is not the same thing as automatically passing.
As much as it disgusts me to hand that to Calgar, I think Jeffe is right.
Choosing to pass is like rolling the dice and succeeding. While being fearless means you don't take tests at all, but are subjected to extra wounds if you lost the combat.
"Politics is the womb in which war develops"
Yup, the God of War is pretty nasty.
Better than Fearless by far!
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
If they automatically passed the check, there would be no decision involved. They would be 'automatically' assumed to pass as soon as the check is required. The game has to stop for a decision to be made. Whether it's the player or the dice that makes the decision doesn't matter.
The rule says that the player decides if the unit passes or fails the check. It does *not* say he decides whether or not they'll take it at all and if they do they automatically pass, which is what you're implying. The test is taken, and passed. It is not exempted from as is the case of a unit that 'always passes all morale tests automatically.'
The assertion that 'the test is automatically passed if the player chooses to pass' is logically parallel to asserting that 'the test is automatically passed if the dice result is equal to or less than the modified leadership score.' So everybody always takes No Retreat wounds! Bottom line, test happens, a mechanic, dice or otherwise, determines success or failure. Iron Will modified how you determine if the test is passed, it does not cause you to 'automatically' pass it upon being required to take it. No Retreat! is for when the test didn't happen in the first place.
(I'm talking abour Iron Will here, I haven't read the new Marine Book yet, dunno how different the wording is.)
On The RAI front, the automatically pass language is just covering for a couple of scarce units in very old army books that have the rules of 'fearless' written out under their own special rules, but don't technically have the fearless USR on their unit listing.
are dice rolled?
cuz you know automatically succeed means that there is no randomly determined event that will result in your failure
Last edited by DJinni; October 10th, 2008 at 17:15.
Dear Game Designer,
Rock is Cheese. Paper is fine.
That definition is in the rulebook where?
There is a possibility that the unit fails their leadership test when they lose the combat. How can we say that the test was automatically passed, when there was a possibility that they could have failed it? It's an incongruous argument. 'Passing without rolling dice' is not the same as 'automatically passing.' The rule changes the game mechanic used to determine success and failure, replaces dice rolling with an alternative. It in no way makes success automatic. Automatically passing says failure wasn't possible.
if we are continuing with actual grammar then my statement still stands.
there is zero chance they will fail once the decision is made to pass, no dice, no test, poof succeed. that is automatic.
Last edited by DJinni; October 10th, 2008 at 18:27.
Dear Game Designer,
Rock is Cheese. Paper is fine.
No, when you choose to pass, that *is* the test; making a choice is not an automatic process! The test has been replaced with a different game mechanic. You didn't 'automatically pass' a dice roll, the dice roll is entirely replaced by a different system. If success is automatic, how is it possible to fail? It's a contradiction. Success was the result of a choice. A choice made by a person is, under any domain of definitions, dictionary, game rules, court of law, the essential opposite of 'automatic.'
Simple Yes or No question, one word no qualifiers.
When an Inquisitor Lord loses a combat, does she automatically pass the required morale test?
That's all No Retreat! is asking us to answer.