Raming question

[king_kabab]

I have a simple question
My question is



IS there a maximum strength to a ramming attack against a tank?

just wanna know because my friends wave serpent (servely upgraded) hit a strength 15 attack against my tanks (ie insant penetrate)

can you please calarify for me it would be a massive help

[ArtificiallyEnhanced]

I'm not sure if wave serpents can ram, do they have the "tanks" special rule in their profile? I thought they were just fast skimmers. If so, I'd like to see how it got st15. Could you break this down for us?

[king_kabab]

basically the person who do this gave his wave serpent mam upgrades that allowed him to move 36 inches a turn (sounds like gibberish to me) so on the ram it gets 12 strength if it moved full distance, 2 for having 12 front armor and 1 for being a tank giving a total of strength 15

[Tulugaq]

Sounds legal to me. Reading through the ramming rules, there is no maximum strength that the attack may be, though typically stats are capped at 10. However, this isn't exactly a stat, so I'm not sure if it would be capped like that. Eldar vehicles do have an upgrade that will give them additional movement.

[ArtificiallyEnhanced]

Something smells fishy here, and I'm not talking about any tau vehicles...

Sorry, bad pun.

But seriously, 36", WHAT THE FUNKY GIBBON!

Check with him that its
a) a tank
b) able to move more than 24" if its a fast skimmer tank (must include all 3 words in its description)
c) I'm pretty sure its just a fast skimmer, and therefore may not ram anyway.

[Tulugaq]

Originally Posted by ArtificiallyEnhanced

Check with him that its
a) a tank
b) able to move more than 24" if its a fast skimmer tank (must include all 3 words in its description)
c) I'm pretty sure its just a fast skimmer, and therefore may not ram anyway.

I'm pretty sure any vehicles can ram, because you get a bonus to your ram if you are a tank. Why would you get a bonus if you're a tank, if you have to be a tank in the first place? Also, there is actually an upgrade that the Eldar can take that gives them bonus movement. I can't recall what it is, it may be Star Engines, but it's there. And it IS fast, it IS a skimmer, and I think Wave Serpents are also tanks, though I can't recall for sure. My codices are all packed up in a box at the moment.

[ArtificiallyEnhanced]

Ramming is under the tank's special rules set, so only tanks may ram (similar to tank shock).

The +1 for being a tank works for both hit and hitting, so if you are hitting a non-tank, they don't get a +1 bonus to the hit on you, whereas a tank ramming a tank would get the +1 st bonus to both parties.

If wave serpents are also tanks I'd be very surprised- I thoguht that only tau had skimming tanks. I will check this soon though as I'm popping into GW in an hour or so

[Zarahemna]

I thought I would chip in here and point out that the Waveserpent is going to get slapped too... You will auto penetrate your target sure, but then you are going to get at least a Strength 12 hit back as a result.

In fact the only way to only take a St12 hit would be to ram a non-tank that has armour 10 on the facing that you ram. Sounds pretty limited eh? That's because it is. Beyond that set of circumstances you are going to auto penetrate your own tank. Imagine for example flying into a Land Raider, sure you may stick him with a St15 ram but he will be swotting you out of the sky with a St17 takedown. Why on earth would you want to do that to yourself? It doesn't sound smart to me.

"Hey mate, let's both roll a dice and see what happens to our tanks..."

Anyhew this is all sort of irrelevent. Eldar tanks can't move that fast. Period.

I can almost hear you arguing with me. Let me explain the rules as I understand them at present. I may turn out to be wrong but I am pretty sure that I have this down.

Eldar tanks move really fast, sure. But never more than 24". Period.

What they can do, and what confuses people no end, is move in the shooting phase instead of firing using their special upgrades. A bit like an Eldar jet bike moving 6" in the assault phase.

Ramming is a movement phase attack. You cannot move more than 24" and then ram someone or something. This clearly changes the maths considerably. Now you are looking at landing a st11 hit on our friendly neighbourhood LandRaider, pretty good and you have a decent chance of penetrating or glancing. He on the other hand is going to slap you with a St13 hit, auto-penetrating your rather expensive tank.

Does this still seem like a good idea?

[moob]

Originally Posted by Zarahemna

Anyhew this is all sort of irrelevent. Eldar tanks can't move that fast. Period.

I can almost hear you arguing with me. Let me explain the rules as I understand them at present. I may turn out to be wrong but I am pretty sure that I have this down.

Eldar tanks move really fast, sure. But never more than 24". Period.

What they can do, and what confuses people no end, is move in the shooting phase instead of firing using their special upgrades. A bit like an Eldar jet bike moving 6" in the assault phase.

I'd just like to echo this statement. Star Engines happens in the shooting phase, not the movement phase.... so the extra movement cannot be used during the ram.

[Platypus]

Yes… Zarahemna has the star engine issue correct here, though even with 24” movement you can get a strength 11 attack…but to point this out…you must be perfectly 24” away to get this…which will rarely ever happen…realistically you will never get more then a S10 attack off.

Though this dose bring and interesting idea up in my mind though. Take a bare bones wave serpent with a shootie unit in it (fire dragons, dire avengers, etc.) and turbo boost 24” towards the enemy tank ramming it. Sure you will also take the high strength hit but in the case where your wave serpent is destroyed then the unit is deployed outside of the vehicle, and must make a pinning test, the aspect warriors have a decent leadership so they should pass their pinning test and then you have moved 24” and deployed your shootie unit which can then fire freely at the enemy….hopefully you have hurt the other tank too. Just an idea…would be curious to see it work in an actual game.