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I was wondering if weapons that ignore Invulnerable Saves (but not armour saves) prevent Feel No Pain from being used on wounds inflicted by them - specifically in the case of Psycannons or Incinerators vs those Daemons who only have an invulnerable save, and not a normal armour save.
To be honest I don't think they do as the rules don't seem to mention it, it just seemed a bit odd to me and I was wondering if anyone had considered the issue before.
You still get your FnP against those weapons, the rulebook is pretty clear on what denies FnP
In the Feel No Pain description it says "Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2 weapons, power weapons and >any other wound against which no armour save can be ever be taken< (like wounds from power fists...."
So there is one of two ways you could interpret this rule. You could say "Because daemons do not have an armour save, but have an invulnerable save instead, Feel No Pain is negated by anything that ignores invulnerable saves."
The other way you can look at it is this way (and I generally wait to say this until someone disagrees with the above on grounds that "armor save" is different than "save") "Daemons have no ARMOR save, therefore any wound inflicted against them is 'a wound against which no armor save can ever be taken" Meaning putting the FNP rule on them is redundant. I only whip out this baby if my opponent wants to get technical. Just agree to play the rules as they're written before the game.
Last edited by Ready4anything; December 5th, 2008 at 14:50.
Unless the weapon is AP2, AP1, or ignores ARMOR saves in CC, FnP is still viable and may be thrown for.
Quoted directly from book, "This ability cannot be used against wounds from weapons that inflict instant death (by having a high enough Strength or a special rule to that effect; even if the model is an Eternal Warrior). Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 or AP2 weapons, power weapons and any other wound in which no armor save can ever be taken (like wounds from power fists, Dreadnought close combat weapons, rending weapons that roll a 6, Perils of the Warp, failed dangerous terrain tests, etc.). Page 75 if you want to look it up. yes i did miss a part of the rule and i apologize for that.
SO in the afore-mentioned argument concerning the daemons, they would get FnP (unless they were T3 or less), justly due to the fact that not only are psycannons AP4, but they ignore Invulnerable saves, which are not armor saves. and if your armor save is better than a 4+, then you get to roll to save in case of wounds by psycannon. However, if the afore-mentioned daemons were T3, then they would merely be onliterated under the onslaught of psycannon death.
This is exactly what I was talking about in an earlier post, if someone gets nit picky about the wording of armor save, simply point out that a model with no ARMOR save, can't ever take ARMOR saves, meaning they never benefit from FNP. It's in a Daemon players best interest to conceed to the psycic weapons for them to get the save against storm bolters. If you want to get all rules lawyer-ish, there you go, no FNP, EVER.
EDIT: "if someone gets nit picky about the wording of armor save, simply point out that a model with no ARMOR save, can't ever take ARMOR saves, meaning they never benefit from FNP."
The criteria for FNP has nothing to do with whether the *model* can take an armor save. It's whether the *weapon* ever allows armor saves - and in this case, sometimes it does.
Last edited by Moglun; December 5th, 2008 at 15:44.
Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.
Thought as much but I just wanted to make sure in case I was missing a trick!
Since the only armour save Daemons ever have is 3+ that part of the argument doesn't really come into it.
Though reading it, would a model with a 3+ save still be able to use FNP against wounds from AP3 weapons? because they don't ignore all armour saves, they just happen to ignore the one of that particular model.