Cluster Mines and Infiltrating - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Cluster Mines and Infiltrating

    A friend of mine asked me this question earlier today:

    "Could a Scout squad infiltrate in terrain which has scout biker cluster mines without triggering them?"

    His intention is to place Scout Snipers in this situation, thus giving them a little more protection due to the mines exploding when an enemy unit moves into the terrain concerned.

    Subsequent to *his* query, the question I thought of was this: when the mines are triggered by the approaching enemy unit, would the Scout Squad also be hit by them or does the wording in the Cluster Mines rule prevent this happening? This is the relevant wording:
    When triggered, the CMs inflict X hits on the unfortunate unit once it has finished its move.
    My understanding is that the Scouts wouldn't be harmed, but I just want to check.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    E.

    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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  3. #2
    Ender of Threads Wraith's Avatar
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    256 (x5)

    IIRC, the mines don't blow up friendly models, so unless I'm wrong (quite possible, can't find my codex right now) he'll be safe. And yes, the mines attack the enemy unit specifically so the scouts don't have to worry about that, either.
    We've got plenty of youth... How about a fountain of smart?


  4. #3
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Thanks. The mines do blow up friendlies if they enter the terrain, but if they only affect the unit which is moving then the scouts should be ok.

    He'll be pleased to know this - he's quite a devious player, but a great fun opponent to play against!

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  5. #4
    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    191 (x3)

    I've got more questions about the cluster mines.

    Scouts place their clusters at the begining of the game. When a player places their unit in that terrain at the start of the game with the clusters does it then trigger.? is at the begining of the game considered a move. They had to get into the terrain somehow.. Does infiltrators set off the clusters.? what about deepstrikers? technically they are placed..

    I know im going to see this rule pop up all the time with my freinds WS scouts and my kroot are going to be very unhappy when they get hit without a cover save.
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  6. #5
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    About placing models and counting as a "move":

    No, it doesn't. That was a big issue for Tau players with their Skimmers and Skimmer Moving Fast rule in 4th Ed. A Skimmer could be penetrated in turn one if the non-Tau player got to go first, as the Tau models were all considered *not* to have moved. Apart from that, what would happen to heavy weapons teams/snipers if they counted as moving and their side got to go first? No shooting in the subsequent Shooting Phase due to the Heavy Weapon rule.

    That doesn't happen, so my take on the Cluster Mines situation would be that models could be placed in the terrain, but any subsequent movement by that unit would trigger the mines. Hence why my mate intends to put a heavy weapons type squad in there - they won't be moving!

    Deep Striking counts as moving, plus it normally can only occur from turn 2 onwards (yes, there are exceptions, like Deathwing), so IMHO a DS'ing unit would trigger the mines.

    E.
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  7. #6
    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    191 (x3)

    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    About placing models and counting as a "move":

    That doesn't happen, so my take on the Cluster Mines situation would be that models could be placed in the terrain, but any subsequent movement by that unit would trigger the mines.

    E.

    I would partially disagree with your interpretation of this, as the clusters are triggered when the models move into the terrain, not when the models move "(aroud)in" or "out of" the terrain.

    I'm still on the fence with the whole deepstriking Deploy, placed bit. Technically it occurs in the movement phase, however, I don't think they states they move, as its always deepstriking is always "place or deployed"

    Necron Scarabs are considered to be burrowed underground in the area where they are deployed, hence technically, may already be in that area when deepstriking.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member omegoku's Avatar
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    216 (x7)

    Deployment does not count as moving as Infiltrators (and all other units deployed normally) can move shoot and assault from turn 1. And it is done outside of the normal turn phase

    Deep Strike counts as moving as units deployed this way are done so in the movement phase, and count as moving for the purposes of shooting.

    I think you could place any unit (friend or foe) in a booby trapped piece of terrain (assuming it is in a valid deployment zone) and as long as they do not move, they would never set of the mines.
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  9. #8
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by camarodragon View Post
    Necron Scarabs are considered to be burrowed underground in the area where they are deployed, hence technically, may already be in that area when deepstriking.
    Also pertaining to your comments about "they had to get there somehow...".

    Fluff has no bearing on rules.

    Sorry, its just the way it is.
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  10. #9
    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    191 (x3)

    I was going to argue on but I found the wording that I was specifically looking for that swings the tables.. PG76

    "In the movement phase when they arrive, units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deepstriking transport"

    hence that they were moving to begin with....

    I still think RAW will let units move around in the terrain or even out of the terrain with out the mines being triggered.
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  11. #10
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Having thought about this a little more in light of what's been posted in the thread, I tend to agree with you on that point, camarodragon. If we go by RAW, then that's following the rules to the letter. The move has to be "into" the terrain, not through it, in order to trigger the mines.

    What's the betting that the eventual FAQ will say otherwise!

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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