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A rules question that came up in a game I had. In this case he had Marneus Calgar and a honour guard in assault with one of my units but this can apply to any independant character joining a unit.
Since Marneus Calgar has Terminator armour he can't make sweeping advances. However his honour guard do not have terminator armour. They win the combat, my unit flees and he attempts a sweeping advance. I say that he can't sweeping advance because Marneus has terminator armour disallowing it however he says he can because the honour guard don't have the armour so Marneus can stand there while they chase.
That personally makes no sense to me but I thought I'd check which was right.
This question also really covers any independant character joining a unit and conferring rules. So any model with terminator armour joining one without for example.
I've checked the rules but I can't really find anything concrete so any help would be appreciated.
Well the honour guard are Marneus retinue so he's always joined to them. They are all in an assault with one of my units. They win and then sweeping advance. I say he can't because Marneus had terminator armour, he says they can because the honour guard retinue don't have terminator armour and can therefore run on ahead.
Common sense says the unit has to stick together when doing any action and can't "split up" to chase and then come back. What's the deal here?
No, they cannot split up. Remember that logic has no place in 40k.
Thanks for the reply. If that is the case could you show me the relevant part of the rules where that's stated? It would be hard to explain without it.No, they cannot split up. Remember that logic has no place in 40k.
If the unit remains in cohesion I would've thought it would be fine for the models without Terminator armour to advance while Calgar stood there like a lump. I see what you're saying about him being part of the unit and them all having to act together but unless they get seriously split up, i.e if the honour guard advances far enough that Calgar standing still would leave him out of coherency, I'd just let it ride. Calgar confers his special rules onto the unit he's with; he doesn't confer them with Terminator armour.
EDIT: Disregard the stuff about unit coherency, I was thinking of consolidation moves. There really doesn't seem to be anything concrete about this, I think it'd just be one of those personal judgement cases. Personally I'd allow it.
Last edited by Frank Fugger; February 16th, 2009 at 16:22.
Well then the Honour guard are his unit I suppose. In any case I would of thought the fact that they are with him and therefore should move and act together in cohesion would mean no sweeping advance. It just seems unfair that you could circumvent the disadvantage of Terminator armour just by placing the unit with others that don't have the disadvantage.
Alright, here is the nutshell of the arguement-
1. Nothing is ever stated that a unit joined by an IC gains/loses the ability to SA b/c of the IC
2. SA IS NOT MOVEMENT! While back in good ol' 3rd edition SA actually involved movement, in the current rules edition, it only involves comparing a D6 to your initiative. Movmenet arguements are completely irrelavent for the purposes of arguing this situation.
3. Units don't have the option to conduct a SA. If you consult the rules governing SA, it is never given as an option, merely an act done after one side flees.
With all that being said. There is no conclusive answer on the case and no convincing argument either way.
My opinion however is that b/c SA is an innate ability to every model and requires something saying you cannot do it and no part of this situation is disallowed specifically, is that yes, models who are allowed to SA can still do it even if the entirety of the unit cannot.
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You *could* avoid the problem of course by choosing not to give Marneus the Armour of Antilochus in the first place!
The way I would look at this is:
- Marneus is in Terminator Armour. The Honour Guard is in Power Armour.
- Marneus cannot leave the Honour Guard until the Movement Phase.
- Sweeping Advance is done in the Assault Phase.
- The rulebook refers to the dice off for Sweeping Advance as being between the falling back *unit* and the winning *unit*.
- Marneus and Honour Guard are still at this moment a single *unit* due to #2.
- The rule for Terminator Armour and Sweeping Advance applies to Marneus.
- Since his Honour Guard cannot leave him (well, *he* can't leave *them*, to be more accurate!) does this not mean that they too are precluded from making the SA roll since the rule in the BRB refers to *units* and not "sections of units"?
Just my .02c
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