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In the Daemonhunter's Codex the Storm Shield is listed in the Wargear section as a One-Handed Weapon, and underneath it's entry in the Wargear list it has the following text:
"Although a storm shield is not a weapon as such, it counts as a single-handed weapon because nothing else can be used by the arm holding the shield."
Does this suggest to anyone that the Daemonhunter's Storm Shield should be considered a One-Handed Weapon in all respects, and should thus grant a model equipped with one an extra close combat attack, or does it mean that the Shield should be considered a one-handed weapon because equipping a model with a Storm Shield takes up a one-handed weapon slot that the model could otherwise use to equip a second close combat weapon?
While the other thread could have been posted here in the first place, I don't think creating a second thread for this is really suitable, as the topic was pretty well covered already. For those who haven't seen it, the original thread can be found here.
Personally, I wouldn't let a DH player take the bonus attack, but I'm also the type of player that would let the DH player use the current Space Marine rules for the Storm Shield.
The current SM codex declares that a model with a Storm Shield can *never* claim the +1A for being armed with 2 CCWs in combat (P.101). The entry for the SM Captain (P.132) says he replaces either BP or CCW with the Storm Shield, so again he doesn't get the +1A since he has to lose one of the weapons which gives it to him in order to take the Shield. Other entries also make this ruling: Vanguard Veterans, Assault Marine Sergeant,
The DH Codex is from 3rd Ed, where Characters could take a two-handed weapon and a single handed weapon, or two single handed weapons from the armoury. The SS was never (and still isn't) included in the list of CCWs which would confer a +1A for combat. The reason the SS rules said that it takes up a "weapon space" was to prevent players from taking a powerfist/power weapon plus other CCW weapon AND the SS to get their character an Invulnerable save and still obtain that extra Attack for CC by having two recognised CCWs.
So no, you can't really argue that just because the wording says that it "counts as" a one-handed weapon it means that the SS confers a +1A. All the other elements have to be taken into consideration - no other weapon can be in that hand, SS is not mentioned in the CCW list, etc.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Or have you made a thread just to poke fun at people who thought Storm shields should confer +1 A?
Frankly, the whole debate seems to me to be a waste of time. The most up to date rules for Storm Shields are in the Space Marines codex, and that's what I would have my DH opponents use, for the sake of clarity as well as consistency. When the game becomes hours-long debate over a single sentence in an out of date book, it loses its appeal and just becomes a chore for me.
The intent is quite clearly that you do not get an extra attack.
As to the letter of the law... if the shield was in fact a single handed weapon, it would be a special weapon (as it gives a bonus), so if you used two shields or a shield and CCW/pistol you'd get the bonus. That said, I think everyone's looking at this backwards. As in, "the shield is not a weapon, but according to footnote 4 it counts as a weapon". That's wrong. In context the shield is a weapon from the getgo, because it's in the weapons section. Then, footnote 4 informs us that despite this it really isn't a weapon, and only counts as one insofar as it uses up an arm - meaning that while selecting it counts as selecting a single handed weapon (because that's what it is on the list), it doesn't actually follow any of the rules for weapons.
Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.
This debate is kinda fun but silly as the rules are quite clear.
You don't use the rules from another codex than your own when it comes to your wargear unless specified in the FAQ for that codex. And even if the shield would be counted as a special weapon, it would still give the extra attack as the only exceptions to that rule is Power Fists, Lightning Claws and Thunder Hammer.
I would love to use the rules from other codexs for my BA army, as my power of the machine spirit still uses the BS2 rules. But I keep to my codex which all players should do, unless thier FAQ says diffrently.
The discussion has covered all of these points in some depth (see the link I posted above), though it is starting to get to the point where everyone is just repeating themselves, so if you decide to post there I'd recommend only doing so if you find some new angle to present. I'm pretty interested in how tournament organisers rule it, since tournaments tend to be notoriously RAW based, since it's all about competition.
And Dwaggie, nobody was suggesting that somehow the rules "must" be played by using another codex's rules. I simply stated that I, personally, feel that some things should be updated, particularly in an older codex like Daemonhunters which typically suffers from that 'codex creep' more than it gains. I would let them use updated equipment in a friendly setting. I'm not suggesting that's how it should always be played, that's just what I would do in a friendly game if one of my friends played the army.
Since your all fired up on using SM codex rules for DH items...
Does that mean I can use the SM rhino costs in my Sisters of Battle Army? Because mine cost quite a bit more and dont have the options included...
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