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I know that if you want an upgrade you need to model it, but what if I want to model an upgrade but not have it? For example I like the look of dozer blades on my Leman Russes, but I don't always want to pay for them points-wise. How acceptable is this?
Last edited by Quercus; April 12th, 2009 at 08:58.
Perfectly fine in my book.
As long as no one cries foul. In friendly games, the opponent's gotta be pretty anal if he complains about it and will soon enough find people won't want to play with him.
In a tournament, once again, as long as your opponent doesn't complain about it. And most probably won't if they're cool. But occasionally you will come up against one of those win-at-all-cost power gamers. If so, then you're outa luck. Maybe you should consider magnetizing the parts so that it could easily be removed.
In all cases, let the opponent know before the game begins, not during the game.
In a tournament I would usually if something is being used to represent something else. I would like to see it stay consistent thought the entire army. So if a melta gun = a bolter, then all bolters should be represented by melta guns. If you build dozer blades onto all of your tanks, they should either all have them or not. Try not to field one with and one with ought and model both of them with it.
Friendly games I don’t mind, just let me know what it’s supposed to be before hand. I regularly play against my friends Tyranid "test" army that proxies candles and Lego men as gaunts and tyrants.
Using a melta gun as a bolter is proxying, you shouldn't do it in tournaments. If saying so makes me a win-at-all-cost jerk, well, sorry. If I put my tank in an otherwise poor position because I'm dodging a melta gun I see in your CSM unit only to later discover 'oh it only counts as a bolter' I'm going to trash your modeling/honor soft scores, sorry!
I have found that people really never complain if you have the wrong thing on a vehicle. People only really get all testy when you do not have it in squads. Really even in tournaments as long as there is something different about your models that represents whatever you want it to be then you should be ok.
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In friendly games, sure, no problem. In a tournament, if it's really only one or two small things I am usually game. If it's a player who is new and/or young and is obviously stretching just to field the points for his force I am a little more lenient.
Hell, I even once fielded a whole army for a newcomer at a rogue trader event with my extra forces I had on me and due to me helping him (thus allowing him to do a lot better on the army I was running) I ended up taking 2nd. Still all good in my book.
Mostly though, so long as you alert me to your non wysiwyg stuff before hand I am generally easy going about it.
For me personally, it's mostly a frequency thing - how often are you making the substitutions in your army?
If it's something simple, like, "Hey, I know this Marine Captain has a plasma pistol, but I'd like to try it as a Combi-Flamer today and see how that works.", even in a tourney, I'd be cool with that. If it was every 4th model and there wasn't any consistancy to it, then I'd be a little cheesed.
I think it also delves into what's represented on the model vs. what the rule you're going for is. As an example, calling a chainsword a power weapon (or vicea versa) isn't all that much of a stretch. Calling a chainsword a powerfist... well, that's an entirely different class of weapon that follows different rules and can significantly change the way a battle works out. Again, as long as it's infrequent or easy to keep track of, it's cool... but it's not something that should be made a habit of.
wysiwyg is a courtsey for your opponent, and making it difficult/confusing is an inconvenience that detracts from the game. As such, if you need to break from it (be it an upgrade or a downgrade), keep it simple. I think the worst I've ever seen and been cool with was a Necron player at my shop who used 3x Heavy Destroyers as normal Destroyers during a friendly match. (Seeing how increasing his Destroyer count to 13 would perform.) Something like that is simple to keep track of though, so it doesn't make it all that much of an inconvenience.
If I'm told before the game starts and its not too confusing, then I'm OK with it. But if every other model has different equipment, I'm not going to accept it, at least not in a tournament. In casual games, everything goes (even bugs bunny hive tyrants and R2-D2 necron Monoliths).