Another Multiple Unit v. Multiple Unit CC Question - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    UnderWater Ninja-Tiger .. Xpyre35's Avatar
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    147 (x3)

    Another Multiple Unit v. Multiple Unit CC Question

    Hey guys,

    With the release of the new codex, my opponent dusted off his IG army, and we took a quick dive into a 500pt skirmish, to test out some things.

    A rather messy, and confusing Close Combat took place at the top of turn 4.

    My squad containing a Captain and a Sgt. + 4 marines assaulted (end of turn 3) a squad of his Veterans, they remained locked in combat.

    Turn 4 his Company Command squad assaulted my Captain. Only 1 member of the command sqaud was in b2b with my Capt. and the rest were trailing in behind that one. None of them could reach the Sgt. or the standard marines.

    During his assault the Capt. and SMs scored 1 wound on the original Veteran unit. His command squad, and veterans scored 0 unsaved wounds. Both units failed the moral check, and were then both caught in sweeping advances. per BRB41.

    Needless to say my opponent was completely unhappy with the way the rules have been written. He wasn't upset with me, it just seemed so unbelievably unfair that both his units were destroyed, when his command squad was assaulting an ongoing combat.

    To be fair I thought it was entirely lopsided also.

    Questions that arose:
    1) If only his veterans lost the Morale check, would my Sgt. and Marines be able to perform a sweeping on the veterans? None of the command squad were in B2B nor did any of them swing at the "combat squad".

    2) At what point would my Capt or the Combat Squad, be able to swing on the oncoming command squad? in SM's turn 4 or only after the veterans were dead?

    3) If the command squad was able to reach both the Capt, and the Combat Squad, being in b2b with Capt and one of the other members. Would this then prevent the Veterans from being caught in a Sweeping Advance, if they fell back from close combat?


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  3. #2
    Airborne Mastershake's Avatar
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    479 (x8)

    1) If you're still fighting anyone you can't do a SA, you're still considered locked if any of the units you were fighting are still alive and not fleeing even if you aren't necessarily in B2B with one or all of the units. This also answers 3)

    2) If you're B2B with the command squad you can always choose to swing on them. You can also swing if your not in B2B, but within 2" of a model from the same unit who is. bear in mind here that the IC will fight as a seperate unit, so if the Cmd squad only contacts him, he is the only one who can swing at them.

    Who is in B2B with who won't affect SA, only units still in the combat. Also charging doesn't affect who you can hit, the rules stay the same.

    Ref for multiple combats and sweep pg. 41, under ASSAULT RESULTS, ATTACKING answers the second part
    Last edited by Mastershake; May 5th, 2009 at 02:37.
    Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009

  4. #3
    UnderWater Ninja-Tiger .. Xpyre35's Avatar
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    147 (x3)

    1) Yeah, its an odd predicament. However, once Capt. and the Combat squad enter close combat are they two separate units?

    So if the 2nd IG squad comes in and only engages the Capt. The Combat squad was only engaged with the Veterans, the Veteran flee, and get caught by the Combat squad.

    Quote Originally Posted by pg 41, BRB
    Remember that winning units can on sweeping advance if all the of units they were locked with fall back or are wiped out in the fight.
    However, I'm still trying to figure out how and when the Dual SM Unit ( Capt. & Combat Squad ) Are one unit when charging, 2 units while fighting, and 1 unit again upon victory? I am unable to find specifics.

    It seems it would get real touchy regarding the second assault and placement, and which units were engaged with who. I don't like getting that specific with people when I play, and units are often just quickly squashed together after measuring to see if the guys in the back would be within 2" of a base to base guy after a 6" assault movement.

  5. #4
    Airborne Mastershake's Avatar
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    479 (x8)

    for IC's see pg.49 INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS & ASSAULTS

    If you read through the section it's fairly clear at what point he is seperate and at what point he is considered part of the unit. Short story, he becomes seperate when attacks go off and rejoin immediately afterwards.

    I think this one section has all your answers.
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  6. #5
    UnderWater Ninja-Tiger .. Xpyre35's Avatar
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    147 (x3)

    Ok, many thanx pg 49 cleared it up. Essentially, If an IC and squad are engaged with multiple units, unless both units fail, there will be no successful sweeping advances possible.

    My friend, just happend to suffer a very bad set of rolls, which cost him both units.

    Thanx MasterShake, rep to you.

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