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I am new here, so please forgive me if I am asking this question in the wrong place. (Would under the Army Section be better?)
Basically, I am new to Warhammer 40k and just recently picked up a Rulebook (5th Edition) and a Tyranid Codex. Having taken the time to read over the Tyranid codex and the first half of the rule book, I am slowly getting a feel for the game. Haven't bought any models yet, but I will soon.
However, I had numerous questions regarding Lictors and their "Secret Deployment" rules.
In the Tyranid Codex it states that Lictors enter battle using the deep strike rule with some modifications. So far so good. Here are the special rules:
First off, they must deep strike into a piece of area terrain. As I understand it, area terrain is any piece of terrain that has a clearly defined edge. Is that right? So it could be a hill, or a cluster of trees.
Secondly, they may deploy in impassible terrain, which doesn't cause a mishap.
Thirdly, a Lictor can scatter upon deploying, but never outside the boundaries of the area terrain to which he is assigned.
And lastly, the Lictor can assault the turn it enters play.
Here are my questions:
- Is area terrain always difficult terrain? If so, this raises the second question. (Below)
- In the rulebook, it clearly states that for deep striking units, difficult terrain counts as dangerous. In the area terrain section, it states that area terrain is most often difficult terrain, so I take it Lictors will often be deployed into difficult terrain and have it count as dangerous.
Does this mean the Lictor has to take a dangerous terrain check if it deploys to difficult terrain? If so, why? Isn't the Lictor hiding in the terrain to begin with? I feel like a check would make sense for a drop pod units or paratroopers, but not for a unit that is supposed to already be present. Seems odd he might take a wound just for jumping out from behind a tree.
I called a local gamestore near me and the owner said that while technically you do need to make the DT check, most players he knows waive that rule since it doesn't make much sense.
- Just to finish up, I assume the deep strike mishaps do apply to the Lictor. However, the criteria for when these are applied seem to have been reduced.
Normally mishaps occur if a unit:
- Lands off the board.
- Lands in impassible Terrain
- Land on top of a friendly model
- Land within 1 inch of an enemy unit.
1 and 2 don't apply since the Lictor can deploy to impassible terrain without issue and can't scatter off the board. (It says he must be placed fully within the area terrain and I assume this means if he scatters out of it and off the board, you simply put him on the edge of the terrain as stated in the rules.)
This leaves 3 and 4. I take it if he scatters onto enemy troops or a friendly unit, you roll the d6 for mishaps. I do understand why an enemy unit would cause a mishap, but not a friendly one. In the case of a drop pod, landing on your buddies would cause some problems, but the Lictor isn't coming onto the field in such a risky fashion.
I guess what GW has done here is tried to make rules more uniform. However, I feel a little like the Deep Strike ruleset doesn't make much sense for a Lictor. The results for the mishaps are rather hard to apply logically to a Lictor. Some make more sense than others. (For example, misplaced. Why would the Lictor be misplaced?)
How do you all treat the DS rules and the Lictor? I mist say, I'm all for simplicity, but I feel a special rule would have been better than trying to cram the Lictor into a ruleset meant for drop pods and the like.
Thanks for the help.
Hive Mind: "Huh?? Oh, man - that was my left at the sandbags... My left, your right... Sorry, my bad!"
You're right on all counts, the new rules don't really make sense for the old lictor. Sadly that's what happens when you mix an older codex and brand new rules - some stuff just gets weird.
Have you checked GW's FAQ for the tyranids?? Seems like this ought to have been addressed.
I'd be inclined to call it like you have, where only units mess him up... But honestly, I see so few Lictors here that it just hasn't come up yet.
Playing by Rules As Written (RAW), lictors would have to take dangerous terrain tests everytime they deepstrike (assuming you're counting your terrain as difficult). Worse yet, never deepstrike into terrain that have units in them - you have have a higher chance for mishaps. In friendly games, you could make your own "houserules" if your opponent also agrees with them. Otherwise, you're stuck with what we call "codex creep" - where rules on older codexes have changed from what they were originally intended due to changes from the newer rulebook.
It's unfortunate it takes so long for all the codices to be updated for the new rule sets. I'm a little confused however. Did the rules for deep strike change from 4th to 5th? It seems to me the real issue lies with the fact that GW decided to use the Deep Strike rule for Lictors at all. Again, I would imagine they are trying to make things more uniform for players, but the ruleset just doesn't make sense in this case and ends up adding a lot of variables that shouldn't apply.
I did check the GW site for information. They have an errata .pdf for the Tyranids, but it didn't mention Lictor at all, which surprised me.
That's sort of how I had it figured. Like you said, I would bet many players would be fine with a slight change, but if your play by the books, it looks like Lictors are definitely risky units to use. It's really too bad. I love the idea of them hiding somewhere and then jumping out, but the way it works at the moment just seems silly. (Might not be able to deploy due to reserves, might scatter, might end up half hurt for no logical reason, might be destroyed outright). For 80 points, that seems like a lot of "mights."
Oh well. Perhaps someday a 5th edition codex will come out and they will change the rules.
Thank you both for your replies.
Last edited by ColdSnap; June 6th, 2009 at 18:55. Reason: Added Thanks.
There is no FAQ or rules to rewrite the Lictor Secret Deployment rules so that they make sense in 5th ed.
So with that in mind, yes the Lictor always rolls dangerous terrain when it enters play (luckily it has two wounds) since no exception to the dangerous terrain rule is given.
In the rare event of a DS mishap you have to discuss with your opponent what will happen as it is not clarified, at least in regards to the "Misplaced" result.
The closest solution to the Misplaced result that I have found comes from the rules line "...anywhere on the table...in a valid deep strike formation..." (Main rules, pg 95). From this you maybe able to draw the conclusion that since the only valid place for a Lictor to DS is area terrain, than the only "valid deep strike formation" that your opponent can place the Lictor in is another piece of area terrain.
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the RAI for the lictor we play is that the moshap is only when he lands on an unit. he cannot scatter outside his designed area terrain. and even the rule says he will have to take dangerous, we do not enforce it as we feel is not fluffy. that guy is an infiltrator not a paratrooper.
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