Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
(prenote: RAW stands for Rules As Written, RAI stands for Rules As Intended)
The Rules for Multiple barrages are slightly ambiguous when it comes to the order in which you do things. So the question, naturally is, what is the order? First a look into the rules:
If a unit has more than one barrage weapon, they are all fired together in a salvo, as follows:
First placed the blast marker for the weapon in the firing unit that is closest to the target. If the target is in range, roll for any scatter as described above.
Once the first marker is placed, roll a scatter dice for each other barrage weapon fired by the unit. If an arrow is rolled, place the marker in the direction indicated so that it is adjacent and touching the edge of the first marker placed (as shown in the diagram). If a hit is rolled, the firing player places the marker so that it touches any part of any marker in the salvo that has already been placed. Note that it is perfectly fine if, through this process, some markers are placed overlapping one another." (p. 32 Warhammer 5th edition Rulebook)
the rolling and placement of the markers after the first.
As far as I can tell, this can be taken a few ways.
After you roll scatter and place the first marker you:
1. roll 1 scatter dice, then place a marker, repeat until you account for the rest of the weapons
2. roll a scatter dice for each remaining weapon, then place a marker for each one.
(after this point are also possible interpretations, but i think are less likely to be correct as they dont seem to be consistent with the RAI or RAW seen elsewhere in the rulebook, but, as it is ambiguous, I include them here for...posterity?)
3. roll a scatter dice for each remaining weapon, but one at a time. Then place the markers in the order you rolled them. (this acts the same as #1 but you have the foreknowledge of the "future" rolls)
4.(...i had a fourth one, but after reading it over it goes against the RAW)
Why it matters?
Just considering #1 and #2, #2 lets you see how your future rolls are before you start placing your markers, while #1 doesn't.
It matters because if your blast marker scatters off target, and if you roll 2 hits you could "chain" them together (by placing them in a line) to still hit your intended target, with #2 its an easy choice, but with #1 its a big risk.
So, ideas on the answer? Note: the rules that they give on Multiple Barrages ARE ambiguous, so remember, unless you can cite some other source within the rulebook or codex or faq, there is NO CORRECT ANSWER!
Here is how you do it. After you have figured out where the initial shot has landed (after scatter), for the remaining shots you just flip the template according to the arrow of each roll. The starting point for the second and third shot is from the first shot. If you look at the diagram on page 32, it shoes it pretty clearly. Shot #1 is where both shot #2 scatter from.
In addition, you clearly don't understand the question, as the diagram on page 32, does show how to do it if all the other shots scatter, and how you CAN do it if 1 hits, but doesn't answer the above question of the ambiguity.
im not entirely sure what your question is.
i usually only come across the Multiple Barrage Scenario when playing a buddy of mine (he plays IG). the way we resolve the Multiple barrages (in this case, a squadron of Bassilisks firing on my space marines) is:
1. place the first blast marker that was fired from the unit closest to the enemy.
2. scatter the first blast marker as we would normally do for any other blast.
3. after determining the final location of the initial blast, we place the template to mark the blast zone.
4. then we roll the scatter dice again, to determine which direction the second shell landed in relation to the first.
4a. if a 'HIT' is not rolled, we place the second template aligned in the direction pointed on the scatter dice (we usually place the templates so they touch, but dont over lap... but the rules say that overlapping is acceptable)
4b.if a 'HIT' is rolled, then my friend places the second template anywhere he wants, as long as it is still touching the first template.
5. repeat step 4 for the rest of the units in the squad that fired a Barrage weapon.
maybe we are going about this all wrong, but this is the conclusion we both reached after reading the RAW, and we both agree that this method works best in our games.
i hope this can help clarify any issues you are having
after re-reading the rules, it seems that all the templates being placed AFTER the first have to be scattered in relation to the first template UNLESS a 'HIT' is rolled in which case that template can be placed in contact with any other template already placed on the table.
so i guess with a couple lucky rolls, a player could basically 'string' blasts together to hit nearby units... but this would require some luck with rolling a 'HIT' result.
Last edited by Neeko; June 15th, 2009 at 02:05.
My post was not "entirely incorrect". It was actually fully correct in what I said. I just did not cover what was said in the case of a HIT being rolled. For any arrow rolled on the 2nd and 3rd blast, it flips from the first template. I just failed to add that if a hit was rolled, you place it anywhere touching or overlapping any of the templates.
I'm not going to try to argue that the rule is clear enough to come to a conclusive answer, but I don't think the intent is unclear. To me 'for each' strongly implies an iterative process. Perform the entire set of instructions for each blast, then proceed to the next. At least to this relatively well educated English speaker, the RAI is clearly saying it's a sequential process.