Flyers Act as Skimmers Moving Over 12"... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Flyers Act as Skimmers Moving Over 12"...

    Okay so in the rules for shooting at flyers, it is said that, "When shot at, flying vehicles follow the same rules as skimmers moving over 12", so all penetrating hits against them are always downgraded to glancing hits." Now, in 5th edition there is no rule in the normal 40k rulebook that says this is how skimmers act when moving over 12". Does that mean that this rule for flyers is null and void, or does it still take effect because flyers were originally intended to only take glancing hits, and that it was just being related to a similar rule in normal games of 40k at the time that Apoc was created?

    If that rule no longer takes effect, that seems like a serious nerf to flyers, so I am just wondering how this should be played.


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    jy2
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    The Apocalypse rules were written with 4th edition warhammer rules in mind. Back then, skimmers moving flat-out (over 12") had their hits downgraded from pen to glance. Then Apocalypse Reload came out, which is more written for 5th edition rules. Basically AR gives you 3 ways to play:

    1) Play it using original Apoc rules. If so, then pen hits on flat-out skimmers become glancing.

    2) Play it using the 5th edition rules. If so, then the flyers should get cover saves for moving over 12" but not the pen/glance.

    3) House-rule it. Customize it for your games.

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    Ok, thank you. I was also wondering because I play Eldar and the Eldar flyers have the 4+ save from Chasing Shadows already, which means that one of their main advantages over other flyers would no longer matters, and their (in my opinion) overpriced points costs really would not be worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elendor View Post
    Eldar flyers have the 4+ save from Chasing Shadows already, which means that one of their main advantages over other flyers would no longer matters, and their (in my opinion) overpriced points costs really would not be worth it.
    Not at all, if you house-ruled it to cover saves you'd get both the holo-field and the cover save. It's the same as armor saves and Feel No Pain.

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    Oh I didn't realize chasing shadows/Eldar titan holo-fields count as an extra save like Feel No Pain. That clears things up, thanks!

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    Np, its because the Titan Holofield isn't a save at all, like FNP on a 4+ the shot is simply discarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deris87 View Post
    Np, its because the Titan Holofield isn't a save at all, like FNP on a 4+ the shot is simply discarded.
    I'm not so sure about that. In the text it says "if a Titan did not move in the previous turn, it does not get this holo-field save (Apocalypse p.96 - Eldar Titan Holo-Fields)." This says to me that it is a save, and in the rules, basically you just use the best save, whether it's cover or some type of invuln save. But then again, I've never went up against Eldar super-heavies with holo-fields so I could be wrong.

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    Anyone know if there's an FAQ for that?

    EDIT: I think I solved it. On page 96 of the Apocalypse rulebook it states that, "Every time a hit is scored against an Eldar Titan [or flyer with chasing shadows, of course] that moved in the previous turn, the Eldar player rolls a dice. On a result of 4 or more the hit is discarded."

    Now, if you look on page 62 of the normal rulebook (5th ed.) under Vehicles and Cover, it is said that, "If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may take a cover save against it."

    Where am I going with this, you might ask? The holofield takes effect after every hit, while the cover save for obscured or moving flat out takes effect after you suffer any glancing or penetrating hits. It would be like a save for infantry after your opponent rolls to hit and before they roll to wound. Then you would have another save (your normal one; cover, armor, or invulnerable) which you roll after your opponent rolls to wound. They are two different saves at two different points in the shooting phase. This leads me to believe that you could use both against the same shots.

    Any further opinions?
    Last edited by Elendor; June 23rd, 2009 at 07:14.

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    Also, while they may use the word "save" in relation to the holo-field, they don't define it as armor, cover, or invulnerable. Those are the only saves outlined in the rules, and if it's not one of those it doesn't have their associated rules. It's a save the way some people call FNP a save; it's an extra roll to avoid taking a hit. Even if you believe Titan Holo-field to be a fourth type of save, from a balance perspective it's pretty crippling not let them them take both. It's essentially gutting half the rules and extra protection inherent to flyers.

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