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I haven't done the math for this yet, but I have noticed that most people firing twin linked weapons roll twice as many dice, but take a maximum of half that number as/if they are succesful. For example, 3 twin linked lascannons roll 6 dice, but score a maximum of 3 hits. Does this confer an advantage as opposed to rolling 3 shots first, then re-rolling misses? Because if they were to roll 3 shots first, and scored 2/3 hits, they would only have 1 chance to re roll the missed shot, whereas if they rolled 6 dice, and scored 2 hits and 1 miss that way, they would have 3 chances to re roll the missed shot. Savvy?
Imperator 100
I have not run across this before. but yeah, without doing the math your idea seems like it makes sense. Go figure, its called a re-roll for a reason. haha
When you are rolling for a single twin-linked shot (a twin-linked lascannon, for example) you can do it two ways:
- roll one die, then re-roll that die if it misses, or
- roll two dice and count it as a hit if either die produces a hit (but remember that you can't get two hits.)
Both of these methods produce identical results, mathmatically.
However, when rolling for multiple shots (say, a twin-linked assault cannon) you have two different options:
- roll a single die for each shot and re-roll the ones that miss
- or roll two dice for a single shot, count it as a hit if either die produces a hit, then roll two dice for the next shot (and so on until you've done each shot).
Both of these methods produce identical results, mathmatically.
However, what you cannot do for a twin-linked assault cannon is roll eight dice, all at once, and pick out four hits. This is not mathmatically identical to the two methods above and, in fact, is considerably more likely to generate more hits. If someone is doing this against you, that person is blatantly cheating.
So, when you're talking about a single rolling a single die and there are only two possible outcomes of that roll (hit or miss, success or failure) then rolling two dice and picking the highest is the same as rolling one die and re-rolling it if it fails.
If you're talking about multiple dice, rolling twice that number of dice and picking the half of those results which are highest is not the same as rolling that number of dice and re-rolling the failures.
Hope that helps.
edit:
To address your example more directly, yes. Rolling six dice for three twin-linked lascannons and selecting up to three hits is significantly better than rolling three dice and re-rolling the misses. You should do it the latter way, not the former.
The exception, as I mentioned above, is when you're dealing with a single shot. Then rolling two dice and picking up to one hit is identical to rolling one die and re-rolling it if it misses.
edit again:
Also, your explanation of the advantage is sound.
Last edited by Left of West; June 24th, 2009 at 12:35.
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Just to give you the math...
3 twin-linked lascannons, assuming BS 3, will statistically score 2.25 hits
(3*1/2)+(3*1/2*1/2)=2.25
However, if you simply roll 6 dice at BS 3 as you say your opponents have done, then you will statistically score 3 hits
(6*1/2)=3
The fact that doing it this way can potentially generate more than 3 hits, when there are only 3 weapons, should be a clue that it is incorrect.
So the previous posters are absolutely correct, it is not the same thing and you should bring this to your opponent's attention immediately.
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Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept
This is cheating anyway i have not seen this done before ether, if i where you i would point out to do it propperly.
"Should take you a while though because of your sloth like pace"
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And to back up an assertions you make, pg 31, main rule book 'Twin-linked'.
There's even an example of a TL heavy bolter and it spells out how you roll them. It doesn't say 'roll twice the number of dice you are shooting, rerolling the ones that miss, etc.' It says to reroll only those that don't hit.
Tim Wright
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I have honestly never seen that done, ever. You don't need an advanced degree in math to see it's obviously cheating.
Well mathematically the same result for one twin linked gun could be gleaned from either re-rolling a miss or just rolling two dice to start with and picking the hit but its definitely very ‘un 40K’ like.
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The order actually does matter anytime Plasma weapons (or anything with Gets Hot!) and BS less than 5 is concerned, so I still think it's a bad habit to do that in general.
e.g., BS4 Guard Officer with plasma pistol (twin linked by the Bring it Down! order)
1 then 2, miss, no gets hot
2 then 1, miss, Gets Hot!
"Should take you a while though because of your sloth like pace"
Click here and watch Gedderz try and cross the road