ap no fair - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: ap no fair

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    8 (x1)

    ap no fair

    isnt ap (armour percing) very unfair consdiring orks have a save of 6+ and how many weapons have a ap of -?


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,330
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    126 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by username1 View Post
    isnt ap (armour percing) very unfair consdiring orks have a save of 6+ and how many weapons have a ap of -?
    No, because ork models are dirt cheap, fearless in large numbers, and have a wealth of other special rules. I play nids, I jump up and down every time I get to take an armor save for my gaunts.
    Tim Wright

    "The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
    -John Gilmore

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    8 (x1)

    agaaints space arines

    but i f you think a tac squad of marines rapid firing agaisnt a mob of 20 ork boyz they could easily kill the whole squad

  5. #4
    Fun guy from Yuggoth Moglun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Age
    33
    Posts
    772
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    235 (x4)

    Not to mention that many CC attacks allow all armour saves.

    EDIT: "Easily kill the whole squad"? I don't think so. Say you have 10 SMs. 20 shots on rapid fire means 7 hits, which means 4 wounds (or thereabouts, on average). Given that the 20 Orks cost less than the tac squad points wise and are killer in CC, that doesn't seem unreasonable at all.
    Last edited by Moglun; June 26th, 2009 at 20:06.
    Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    454
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    61 (x0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moglun View Post
    Say you have 10 SMs. 20 shots on rapid fire means 7 hits, which means 4 wounds (or thereabouts, on average).
    I think you're confusing the math on pistols and rapid firing. 19 bolter shots from a rapid firing tac marine squad (1 for sgt) makes for 12-13 hits, 6-7 wounds and dead orks. But to your point, that ork squad is still going, still fearless, and within assault range.

  7. #6
    Senior Member WinnipegDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    402
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    ^^^

    People from Winnipeg are wise. Listen to him.

  8. #7
    Lia
    Lia is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Age
    32
    Posts
    167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    46 (x1)

    Marines have BS4 so 66.66~% chance to hit so 13.332 hits, on average. Half of those will wound 6.666~ so between 6 and 7 kills per shooting phase, which is still far from killing a whole squad, tho yes potentialy they could wipe the whole ork mob, but so could the orks throught volume of fire.

    Orks boys being 6 points a piece versus 17 per marines (averaged point cost for 10 "naked" marines) means you will have nearly 3 orks per marines, let's take shoota boys for the example 170/6 = 28.33~, let's keep it simple 28 orks. 28 ork with each 2 assault shots 56 shots BS2 33.33~% hit rate, 18.6648 hits, on average, half of which will wound (in average) for 9.3324 wounds. 33.33~% of those wounds will go unaffected by the power armor save (in average) for 3.11 unsaved wounds.

    The key diferrence? the orks can assault after they shooting, while the marines would have to use their pistols (halving the number of initial shots). That and being more resilient per means of ablative wounds 7/28 is 25%, 3/10 is 30%, which took the more crippling damage? (That being said, like all hordes they are susceptible to blasts/templates weapons.)

    Also 'Ard Boys are a possibility if the lack of a save bother you.

    Guardsmen suffer a bit more from the prevalence of AP5 or better in the game, being less resilient and barely cheaper, they compensate by having a better accuracy and more special/heavy weapons as well as some of the best vehicules out there this being said.

    Basically if it don't have atleast a 4+ save consider it to not have one usually, plan accordingly and just be happy when you get to roll saves.

  9. #8
    Fun guy from Yuggoth Moglun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Age
    33
    Posts
    772
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    235 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deris87 View Post
    I think you're confusing the math on pistols and rapid firing. 19 bolter shots from a rapid firing tac marine squad (1 for sgt) makes for 12-13 hits, 6-7 wounds and dead orks. But to your point, that ork squad is still going, still fearless, and within assault range.
    My math was incorrect; I was giving them a 33% chance to hit instead of 66%. But as you and Lia show, the orks are still far from wiped.

    Quote Originally Posted by WinnipegDragon View Post
    People from Winnipeg are wise. Listen to him.
    I sense a bias... In fact, your workplace looks like my workplace!
    Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.

  10. #9
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Prowling LO, looking for fresh meat.
    Posts
    4,571
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    476 (x8)

    This is a forum for rules 'help' not rules 'whining'.

    If you have something to say about the rules, do your research and make it constructive (as many posters here just managed).

    Locked.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

Closed Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts