Flamers And Lictors And Telion - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Flamers And Lictors And Telion

    Hi

    Total Newb to this forum, and for that matter 40K. Not new to Wargaming though.

    Please could someone clear up these questions.

    On p29 the rules state that 'because template weapons bathe the area in burning fuel, cover saves are ignored when resolving wounds, even by models inside area terrain'

    However, on page 38 of the Tyranid Codex it says 'A Lictor always receives a cover save, even in the open'

    It seems to me that this means that Lictors effectively dont get cover saves against flamers (they may make a cover save but it is ignored (so there's no point making one)). But, I am starting to play this with my 15 year old son who is playing Tyranids and I would like some independant input (so it isnt just 'Dad says so').

    Also, the player with Sergeant Telion can allocate wounds, apparently. Is this still the case when shooting at a Hive Tyrant with a Tyrant Guard?

    Sorry if these questions are repeats.


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  3. #2
    Member Daovin's Avatar
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    I think this may be a case of codex trumps rulebook? The rule book says it doesn't get a cover save, but the codex states "always gets a cover save"

    That is if your wording is correct of course.
    "And they shall know fear." - a particularly evil Daemon Prince

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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Green Man View Post
    On p29 the rules state that 'because template weapons bathe the area in burning fuel, cover saves are ignored when resolving wounds, even by models inside area terrain'

    However, on page 38 of the Tyranid Codex it says 'A Lictor always receives a cover save, even in the open'

    It seems to me that this means that Lictors effectively dont get cover saves against flamers (they may make a cover save but it is ignored (so there's no point making one)). But, I am starting to play this with my 15 year old son who is playing Tyranids and I would like some independant input (so it isnt just 'Dad says so').
    You're right, the lictor has a cover save in the open which is then ignored by a flamer.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Green Man View Post
    Also, the player with Sergeant Telion can allocate wounds, apparently. Is this still the case when shooting at a Hive Tyrant with a Tyrant Guard?
    Without looking at the Shieldwall rule myself, I'd have to say that yes, Telion's shots may be allocated by the shooting player. I don't recall if any of the Tyrant Guard rules contradict this.
    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Daovin View Post
    I think this may be a case of codex trumps rulebook? The rule book says it doesn't get a cover save, but the codex states "always gets a cover save".
    Nay sir. You are confusing the possession of a save with the ability to use it.

    Do Space Marines lose their armor save when hit with AP3?
    Do Daemons lose their Invulnerable Saves when hit with Psycannons?
    Do Lictors lose their cover save when hit with flamers?

    No, they are just not allowed to take the save, as they are ignored.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
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    My mistake.

    I guess it's like a pyro vs a spy from TF2 then.

    Oh sure the spy can cloak, but he'll still catch on fire!
    "And they shall know fear." - a particularly evil Daemon Prince

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    Thanks for your help, I am now clear with flamers and Lictors.

    With regard to Telion vs Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guard, the Shieldwall special rule is as follows:

    'A Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guard may not be picked out as a seperate target from the unit despite the fact it is a monstrous creature.'

    Telion's Eye Of vengeance special rule is

    'Wounds cause by Telion's shooting attacks rather are allocated by the controlling player, rather than the opposing player.'

    These appear to be contradictory. As they are both Codex rules, which one takes precedence?

    Thanks again.

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    Fun guy from Yuggoth Moglun's Avatar
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    The Shieldwall ability is referring to a now obsolete rule which allowed you to target monstrous creatures in a unit (or something to that effect; it was before my time). Wound allocation, be it from Telion, a Vindicare, or just multiple wounds against a complex unit, should be resolved normally.

    EDIT: That is to say, "allocating wounds to the Tyrant" and "picking out the Tyrant as a seperate target" refer to different things; targetting the Tyrant would mean rolling to hit and wound against the Tyrant instead of the rest of the unit, as I understand the old rules.
    Last edited by Moglun; July 16th, 2009 at 17:01.
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    OH, this is a bit confusing for a Newb then. Are you saying that some of the rules in the current Codexes are obsolete? If so, is there a list of these somewhere?

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    Fun guy from Yuggoth Moglun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Green Man View Post
    OH, this is a bit confusing for a Newb then. Are you saying that some of the rules in the current Codexes are obsolete? If so, is there a list of these somewhere?
    It's not that the codex rules themselves are obsolete, it's that they no longer have any effect because they refer to main rulebook rules which are obsolete. The Shieldwall prevents the Tyrant from being seperately targetted by shooting while he's in the unit, but since the rules for targetting Monstrous Creatures inside units no longer exist it no longer has any effect. Similarly, Sisters of Battles are immune to Minor Psychic Powers, but there are no longer such things as Minor Psyhic Powers anymore so the immunity is pointless.

    The codex FAQs sometimes mention these issues, and the main rulebook FAQ brings up the issue in general, but I don't think there's a definitive list anywhere.
    Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.

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    OK thanks very much, thats a relief! That means that Telion can target any individual figure then.

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    Edit: This is why you shouldn't leave a thread open, then come back to it an hour later to answer. my post is useless.
    Last edited by avatar of khaine; July 16th, 2009 at 18:15.
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