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Hello, and welcome to the nitty-gritty rules~
Here's the quick summary:
There is a squad of infiltrating orks (commandos). They can be lead by character named Snickrot. Snickrot has a special rule that states, "When Snikrot and his unit become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge". (P62 orkz kodex)
How does this rule interact with other Independent characters that may join the squad before the game starts? Are you able to attach a warboss to his unit before the game starts, and have them all walk on the board as a massive 500 pt walking deathtrap?
Your thoughts would be greatly appriciated, thanks!
(I would also like you to say if you're writing from the perspective of 'rules as intended' or 'rules as written' if you could. Thanks~)
Unless the special rule says that it applies to any IC's which join the unit, I would say no. Just as the genestealers lose fleet when joined by a Broodlord, the default is if you add an IC to a unit with a special rule, the unit loses that rule unless otherwise stated in their description.
Another example would be if you add an IC w/power armor to a squad of terminators. Then the whole unit may not deepstrike because the IC cannot DS.
Last edited by jy2; July 18th, 2009 at 07:48.
Totally agree. Compare P.74 and 75 BRB with what is written in the Ork Codex (I do not possess the codex, so I cannot do the comparisons). As jy2 said, if the codex says that any other IC joining the unit can also benefit from this infiltrating rule belonging to the Commandos, then that overrides the BRB. If it isn't mentioned in the Codex then the BRB reigns supreme.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
It's actually because of the BRB that this is possible.
As you have already said, "When Snikrot and his unit become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge". (P62 orkz kodex).
So, we already know that we are not using a Universal Special Rule, so the trends for ICs in units with Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Fleet etc do not apply. Instead, we must look at page 94 under Reserves:
"First he must specify to the opponent if any of his independent characters left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will be rolled for and will arrive together, or not in which case they will count as a separate unit when rolling for reserves"
So...BRB reigns supreme as you say and thus it's entirely 100% legal to Ambush with an independent character.
And in case you're wondering, here are the rules for outflanking. Note however, that Ambush (Snikrot's ability), is NOT outflanking at all, but rather a modified Reserves deployment.
"If units in reserve have the 'deep strike', 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rule, the player must declare to his opponent, during army deployment, whether they are going to use their special rules to deepstrike/outflank or they are going to enter from his own table edge when they will become available"
So this means that you would not be able to have a regular kommando nob and attach a warboss to outflank with them, which means that Snikrot is one sneaky git!
The part about IC's joining a unit and coming in from reserves only applies if they are coming in from their own table edge. It doesn't apply to special deployments.In order words, an IC may join a unit and come in with them through normal reserves if they're coming in from their own table-edge.BRB p. 94 - Arriving from Reserves
When a reserve unit arrives, it must move onto the table edge from the controlling player's own edge (unless it is deepstriking or outflanking).
And as you say, ambush is not outflanking so the outflank rules doesn't apply in this case unless you are using Snikrot's infiltrate ability to outflank.
The pertinent question here is whether Snikrot's Ambush ability is conferred to the IC who joins his unit. As Serbi quoted, "When Snikrot and his unit become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge". (P62 orkz kodex)
Now I intepret Snikrot and his unit to be just the Kommandos, not IC's who attach themselves to Snikrot's unit. Because their special rules doesn't say that any IC's joining their squad may also ambush with them, to allow a warboss or any other IC's to ambush with Snikrot's unit would be like giving Dante and any other IC's Rending and Feel No Pain for joining a Death Company unit.
If it is an exception to the normal rules, the trend is that GW will explicitly state so. Examples include Kor'sorro Khan in which his special rule states that all units with combat tactics and dedicated transports may outflank or Space Wolf scouts in which it specifically says that any Wolf Guard leaders joining them may also Operate Behind Enemy Lines with them (OBEL is probably the special rule most similar to Ambush).
Last edited by jy2; July 18th, 2009 at 15:24.
It turns out we have been looking at the wrong part of the rulebook. Given just the information I provided above it would have been a reasonable argument to allow an IC to join Snikrot, but I still doubted that it was the intent of the game designers to allow this.
Sooooo, I just read through every single relevant section of the rulebook and stumbled across this gem.
Page 48, Special Rules:
"Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the 'stubborn' special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit".
This also solves a question I have been wondering for awhile: whether or not an attached IC gains FNP when a painboy is present, or gains +1 WS when a WAAAGH banner is present. Using this ruling no upgrade option to a nob squad ever applies to an attached IC. Good to know.
For the record though, in terms of wolf scouts, I would never trust what another codex says about a rule
Page 74, Universal Special Rules:
"if any of the Codexes (this should really read codices) include one of these special rules and the rule is different, the one in the Codex takes precedence (representing how te general special rule applies to that specific race)"
one model has a special rule that specifically confers it's benefits to the entire squad
"it's not a UNIVERSAL RULE it's an ability, just like Feel No Pain. Saying that Ambush wouldn't work then negates Ghazzi's Waaagh ability and a whole slew of Special Characters abilities as well." Dez