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    Question about ap1 weapons

    Hello guys I got a question about ap 1 weapons.
    I play tau. and me str 10 ap1 weapons are great.
    But when I glance or penatrate a tank or what ever. you got a plus 1 on the roll.
    But when is it added. Is it like I roll a 1 so 1 - 2 for glancing and then +1 for the ap1
    Or is it 1 + 1 then -2 for the glancing ??

    Its a bit weird because I had made a shot the other day on a valkyre and rolled a on on glancing hit. So I did not know what it was.

    If anyone can help me with the answer thx.


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    Senior Member Absolutionis's Avatar
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    It does not matter what order they are added.

    1 + 1 - 2 = 0
    1 - 2 + 1 = 0

    I understand the intent of your post and don't mean to challenge your mathematical intelligence. Overall, the penetration chart roll can go into the negatives. Note that the chart says "1 or less" under the column labelled "d6 roll".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutionis View Post
    It does not matter what order they are added.

    1 + 1 - 2 = 0
    1 - 2 + 1 = 0

    I understand the intent of your post and don't mean to challenge your mathematical intelligence. Overall, the penetration chart roll can go into the negatives. Note that the chart says "1 or less" under the column labelled "d6 roll".

    I dont think you know what I mean

    If I roll a 1 for glancing. yes you have to -2 on the chart to see what it does so thats still 1 and the ap gives +1 so its gona be stunned instead of shaken..

    But if the counting go's 1 +1 =2 -2 is 1 on the chart again.

  5. #4
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    I know what your saying, as if you do the subtracting or addition in stages then it seems to work differently.

    To do it this way however would be like rounding a fraction off half way through a calculation (ie. 1+0.5+0.6. You could go 1+.5= 1.5 rounded to 2 now add 0.4 and you get 2.6 when the real answer is 2.1).

    So back to the question at hand. You take the roll which in this case is 1 then you subtract any negatives, add any positives then compare to the chart.

    If you feel this is being a negative to you and don't feel like accepting it then look at the plus side what if you rolled a 6 on the glancing chart.
    In your two ways you'd get a 4 from adding first or a 5 from subtracting first (the opposite effect of the stun v shaken issue you were having.
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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    The question is, what happens first? Adding or subtracting? Or do neither occur first, but instead you combine the bonuses/penalties, i.e. -2 +1 = -1?

    And can the total go below 1, which is the lowest option on the table? By that token, can it go above 6, which is the highest option?

    I've been playing under the assumption that 1 is the lowest and 6 the highest on the table, so you can't go above or below the extremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Splata View Post
    I know what your saying, as if you do the subtracting or addition in stages then it seems to work differently.

    To do it this way however would be like rounding a fraction off half way through a calculation (ie. 1+0.5+0.6. You could go 1+.5= 1.5 rounded to 2 now add 0.4 and you get 2.6 when the real answer is 2.1).

    So back to the question at hand. You take the roll which in this case is 1 then you subtract any negatives, add any positives then compare to the chart.

    If you feel this is being a negative to you and don't feel like accepting it then look at the plus side what if you rolled a 6 on the glancing chart.
    In your two ways you'd get a 4 from adding first or a 5 from subtracting first (the opposite effect of the stun v shaken issue you were having.

    I know where you coming from. Well I am a tau player so the plus 1 after the negatives is good for me because a glancing means its stunned allways and a 6 destroyed still .

    But for my brother and on the necron forum they said ofcourse its the other way arround so. They say that offcourse its negative for them.
    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    The question is, what happens first? Adding or subtracting? Or do neither occur first, but instead you combine the bonuses/penalties, i.e. -2 +1 = -1?

    And can the total go below 1, which is the lowest option on the table? By that token, can it go above 6, which is the highest option?

    I've been playing under the assumption that 1 is the lowest and 6 the highest on the table, so you can't go above or below the extremes.

    Thats what I think also. so if I would roll a 1 the -2 is still 1 + 1 from the ap1 is 2.
    But offcourse its also if you look at it the other way its roll 1 (-2 +1=-1) so still 1 on the chart. If it would be more clear in the rule book its settled. But when its negative for the enemey player he offcourse wants the last option while I like the first option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    I've been playing under the assumption that 1 is the lowest and 6 the highest on the table, so you can't go above or below the extremes.
    It says 1 or below and 6 and above doesn't it?

    Anyway If my st10 ap1 shot glanced a tank and lets say I rolled a 1 on the table I would:

    Have the 1 I rolled,
    Have -1 for taking off the -2 due to glancing,
    Add the +1 for ap1 to give me 0.

    Sort of think of it like power fists and Furious charge. Bonuses come AFTER all is said and done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archeon666 View Post
    Thats what I think also. so if I would roll a 1 the -2 is still 1 + 1 from the ap1 is 2.
    But offcourse its also if you look at it the other way its roll 1 (-2 +1=-1) so still 1 on the chart. If it would be more clear in the rule book its settled. But when its negative for the enemey player he offcourse wants the last option while I like the first option.
    That is incorrect, pg. 61 under "Damage Rolls," all modifiers on the damage chart are cumulative. So, you take your -2 modifier for glancing and add it to your +1 modifier for AP1, leaving you a total modifier of -1. Also, the results for "Crew-Shaken" and "Destroyed-Explodes!" are "1 or less" and "6 or more" respectively. So, it is possible to have to score a glancing hit, roll a 1 on the damage chart, and end up with a negative result on the damage chart-- which still results in a Crew-Shaken result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deris87 View Post
    That is incorrect, pg. 61 under "Damage Rolls," all modifiers on the damage chart are cumulative. So, you take your -2 modifier for glancing and add it to your +1 modifier for AP1, leaving you a total modifier of -1. Also, the results for "Crew-Shaken" and "Destroyed-Explodes!" are "1 or less" and "6 or more" respectively. So, it is possible to have to score a glancing hit, roll a 1 on the damage chart, and end up with a negative result on the damage chart-- which still results in a Crew-Shaken result.

    That sounds logical how you are telling it. so roll a 1 or 2 is still shaken 3 would be stunnend 4 weapon 5 immo and 6 destroyed with a ap 1

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    Yep, and then a roll of 6 would net you a 7, which is still only an Explodes. That said, I always prefer to imagine it's a super=explodes

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