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I have witnessed a few games now, where a unit of Space Marines,
1) assaulted an enemy unit on an objective
2) lost the assault
3) volunteered to lose Moral check via Combat Tactics
4) Fall back
5) then lost the Sweeping Advance initiative roll, were caught by sweeping advance
6) ATSKNF applies (they aren't destroyed)
7) apply No Retreat wounds, and save them.
At the end of this exchange, they SMs effectively pulled the enemy unit off the objective 8" (the fallback distance)
I've seen it online (videos) and in person, gaming center. I wasn't in a position to ask how this actually occurred.
The rule I've found is on pg 40 for Sweeping Advance, second bullet, "...falling back unit's total is higher.....Make a fall back move..."
When reading this, the error I see in the events above, is at between steps 4 and 5, where the roll for Sweeping Advance should happen prior to, Falling Back
I've seen this 'tactic' referred to in alot of Battle Reports also, Am I missing something?
Last edited by Xpyre35; August 31st, 2009 at 20:43.
Fall back moves are only preformed after the units successfully breaks from combat. If marines (or anyone) get caught in the SA, they don't move at all, they take the wounds (in the case of other units they dissapear) and if anyone is left models not engaged move to get engaged.
This isn't a tactic, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules.
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Right, that makes sense completely.
And from what I can tell there is no way for a Marine unit to 'lure' another unit off an objective.
I've just seen it a few times now, and it makes me wonder if I'm crazy.
Well, I've heard of it happen too, but it's just people trying to bend the rules a lot. You can't do that.
The only way to lure them off of the objective is if they're spread out a bit.. then you assault one side barely reaching them (ie, you move such that you closest model is 5" away from theirs). The unit will then have to leave the objective during their counter attack.
Many a marine player ive encountered have tried to voluntary fail his moral check (combat tactics). When he successfully escapes combat he is disappointed to find out when they are with in 6” of one of my units they must still make another fall back move. (which often takes them off the board) Most often they think they can auto rally and can move and shoot again as if nothing had happened. Yes they can shoot, but only after they move another 2d6 back.
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Here is a ugly little trick with combat tactics. If you are to close to an enemy and want to fall back, go to ground. Use the cover save vs the armor save to make sure you lose 25%. Choose to fall back (thus ending the "gone to ground") and then auto rally on your turn a safer distance from the enemy.
Its ugly but it works (I don't play marines btw )
You sure that's allowed? Check P24 of the BRB in the Models with more than one save section. The last sentence in the first paragraph reads as follows:
"the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."
It doesn't imply that you have a choice of which to use, but that instead you use the best one available. Nothing else in the section seems to give you the option of choosing a save other than your best one, either.
I don't think they ever predicted a situation where a person wouldn't use their best save.
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I've heard arguments that, because the rules don't define what the best save actually is, the player can choose a save that would benefit him more.