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At the start of the game.
At the end of the game.
On the one hand waiting until the end of the game to show your opponent your list can be unfair. On the other hand showing your list at the start of a game can ruin surprises and remove any element of bluffing from the game.Not showing your opponent your army list or not telling him/her which chimeras on the field are transporting which units is a dick move and not very sportsman like.
I think it's really good to take a WYSIWYG army and let your opponent figure out what you have rather then explicitly telling him what unit he should be shooting at first. Then at the end of the game show him the list.
It think what troops are in what transports is a bit of a gray area. It can be really game changing and even with WYSIWYG there's no way for your opponent to know what's coming unless you tell him. However if you tell him then a big red bullseye will appear over one of them and I don't think that's really very realistic.
So I'm keen to hear everyone's opinions on this one. If you play it differently with different opponents I'm keen to hear that too.
I usually play showing the list at the start of the game. This is the default for most tournaments, BTW. And you always have to show your list at the end, look for the "A note on Secrecy" section in the rulebook.
Necron Army Building Maxima: Beware of Phase Out
I voted "at the end of the game", though practically often enough I don't, and often enough I do it before game.
When I play against my friends we have an agreed points limit and that suffices. We trust each other to have a legal list, and not exactly knowing what's on there is an interesting aspect of the game for us. Though if an opponent wants to know how this and that model is equipped (things as grenades, etc, are often enough not WYSIWYG) he is entitled to have access to this information immediately.
So it comes down to this: I usually try to keep lists secret. But if the opponent doesn't agree he shall have full access to my list whenever he wants, and of course even if you agree on secrecy throughout the game you ought to at least show your opponent after the game. If he is not interested in your list though, then he might not get to see it at all...
Yeah that's pretty much what we do too. If I should be able to see whats on the model and I ask my opponent what he's got, he'll tell me.
But what about transports, in reality I can't see what's inside a transport. So should I be able to ask my opponent what's in there?
Also should I know what unit's my opponent has in reserve, should I know if they are outflanking or deep-striking? I'm sure the rules touch on this somewhere but I'm interested in people's house rules as well.
If I play an unfamiliar opponent I talk it through with him, explain that I like the secrecy thing but if he doesn't, then we will share it all from the beginning. That's about it.
I usualy let them know what is in reserve, and what units are IN rhinos. One rhino has a squad of 7 plague marines, another has 10 vanilla CSM...
I wont tell him which are which though, else he'll try to bombard those damn plague marines right off the bat.
If he wants to see my list, he can at any time. It doesn't specify which rhino is which :-P
Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)
Your opponents ACTULLY play with a list..?????
In a tourny setting before hand, in just for fun games ill hold off till the endif my opponent wishes to do the same. The secrecy can be entertaining for both sides if both are willing to play it out that way. As long as everything is WYSIWYG.
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If anyone asks to see my list, I'll show them.
But then we tend to play with proxies so we'll run through our armies after deployment anyway (this is a tactical squad w/ X + Y, this is a Captain with combimelta, etc)
After a game normally with Omegoku.
I tend to mainly play against Space Marines anyway so easy enough to figure them out and a few questions about whats in rhinos/deepstriking/etc. before hand.
Likewise my Chaos army is brutally obvious as to whats what so anybody could be able to figure it out.
I did have a nightmare playing against Omegokus Tau though-cant figure out those blue headed gits at all-leading to a very funny situation where I didnt realise that a Tau skimmer was a transport so the FireWarrior squad that my Lord was chasing down hopped in the transport and got away leaving my Khorne Lord stranded!
Currently play: 4000+ of Black Legion
"To keep things fair, you should always allow your opponent to read your force roster after a game. In the same spirit, always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle." (emphasis mine)
"During deployment, when declaring which units are left in reserve, the player must clearly explain the organisation of his reserves to the opponent."
"If units in reserve have the 'deep strike', 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rule, the player must declare to his opponent, during army deployment, whether they are going to use their special rules to deep strike/outflank..."
So the rules clearly state you show your list after the game, but must be up-front about what's in each transport, and that you must explicitly declare your reserves ahead of time. Now if both people agree, there's nothing stopping you from making house rules to do otherwise... just realize that's not the norm. Additionally, in most tournament situations, you're required to share your list ahead of time.