Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
If an IC has a retinue but the entire retinue is wiped out, for the purposes of combat resolution is the IC still part of the squad or is it now an IC?
Example (we'll assume the attackers suffered no unsaved wounds): If the retinue suffers 4 unsaved wounds leaving the IC all alone, thereby making them an official IC rather than an upgraded member of the squad, does the IC have to take a morale check taking the -4 penalty they lost CC by? Or because they are now a single unit that lost no wounds; is the combat a draw?
I'm assuming the IC is still held accountable to the wound pentalty as if he was part of the squad otherwise he would possibly be able to sweep the attackers(had they suffered wounds) even though his squad technically lost combat!
I was playing a game yesterday where some seekers of slaanesh attacked a farseer and his retinue of warlocks. The seekers took no wounds, the warlocks all died then the farseer was swept in combat resolution. My opponent felt the farseer is now an IC(per the retinue rules) for purposes of combat resolution. I felt the game would just be too broken to allow the IC to not have to deal with the loss of it's entire squad (in the form of penalties) because it says ICs cannot leave squads during shooting or assault phases, despite having a retinue that died.
We played my way then agreed to get clarification later as we had already spent 30 minutes arguing about it slowing the game down and I'm a big baby. What can I say? I felt entitled to the sweep!
The IC is regarded part of his unit again before combat resolution (rulebook, page 49).
You could argue that though he started this assault phase as part of a unit there is no unit left for him to return to, but this changes nothing, as close combats involving multiple units just add wounds suffered and inflicted for all their units involved and then each unit of the losing side has to test for morale with the total penalty (rulebook, page 41).
So even if you say the IC is his own unit if the squad is wiped out even though he started the turn as part of a unit, he would still be on the losing side and still have to test for morale. And he would still suffer a penalty amounting to the number of unsaved wounds his side was beaten by...
Does this also mean that if a 3rd unit charged into close combat on the next players turn, that newly assaulting unit could be forced to fall back if overall their "side" lost more wounds?
Last edited by psichotykwyrm; September 24th, 2009 at 05:45.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
A tactical squad is assaulted by a squad of dire avengers. No wounds go unsaved, they are locked in close combat.
Next round a 2nd tactical squad assaults into the ongoing battle and unluckily ALL of the tactical squads cause zero wounds but, the Dire Avenger squad causes 2 unsaved wounds.
Do both tactical squads take a -2 Ld test then fall back upon failing?
Then all of my questions have been answered. Thank you both!
Just a bit of additional. This is why the Fearless rule can be a pain in the behind! Ld check or more wounds, and as has been pointed out ALL loesing units must check.
I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand
Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
There's no LD check or more wounds for fearless guys, it's automatically more wounds... but I'd rather be fearless and take wounds for losing combat than fail a morale and get run down, losing the entire squad instead of 1-2 guys to saves. Fearless is so much better than not, especially with things like the IG Psyker Battle Squad running around. Though maybe Marneus Calgar's ability is better.