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It must immediately take a Leadership test for each wound suffered (on its own leadership value, the model cannot use another model's LD for this test.)
Ork Mob rule:
Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their normal Leadership value. If an Ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the Fearless special Rule.
Right. So the Mob rule says "Ork MOBS." Soul Devourer targets a SINGLE model (the one to which the wound is allocated.) Does the Mob rule override the Leadership value of the orc suffering a Soul Devourer hit? Devourer does say quite spesifically the victim of a Soul Devourer must use the model's own leadership value.
Remember: Mob rule says "Ork Mobs." Devourer says "on its own leadership value" about single models.
Additionally the Soul Devourer rule does not dictate that this ability can be ignored by Fearless models. For example, one of the Necron Deceiver's abilities says spesifically that it does not affect Fearless models (and so do many others in different Codexes.) This is regarding to a mob the size of over 11 models, aka Fearless.
Please be really spesific and careful when replying to this, it concerns nigh all of my games.
Edit: Additionally, Soul Devourer is a Leadership test of a single model, not a Morale check of an entire unit, these two being different tests.
Soul Devourer require you use the model's Leadership and not another model's (IE: Sarges/ICs).
Mob Rule! Allow the orks to change the Leadership value of every ork (who have the rule) to be equal to the numbers of orks in the mob. This doesn't make them use anyone else's Leadership value, even tho it's a buff.
In a way it's akin to a piece of wargear who would give you a bonus to leadership, it is not anyone else's Leadership you would be using.
Fearlessness is irrelevant in this case, it wouldn't affect the check anyway.
That's my take on it anyway.
The issue is that the Ork Mob rule says that Ork Mobs may subtitute their leaderships. This means word-to-word, that an Ork Mob as a whole may subtitute its leadership. But what about a single Ork? It does not say that every Ork included in the unit can substitute their leadership, it says the Mob as a whole can. The Soul Devourer check is not a morale check for the mob, it is a leadership test of the single orc getting hit by Soul Devourer. I hope that clarifies what I mean, since the Mob rule indeed only talks about Mobs that consist of a number of Orks. Not single models.
So being Fearless does not affect the check? That's what I thought aswell. What leadership is used if the Mob numbers 12 models or more (and is fearless)? They cannot have a Leadership Value of 12, because the Mob rule ends at 11 and turns them to Fearless, which is ignored by Soul Devourer. Rulewise I'd see it as follows;
11 models = LD check on an LD value of 11
12 models= Fearless, basic LD is used (What did Nobs have, 7 or 8? Cannot use another models, like the Warboss.)
It would be a bit silly like that, but that's how I'd see it go down. Or do Fearless models have a special rule about doing leadership tests that ignore them being Fearless?
Last edited by RunicFIN; October 7th, 2009 at 10:04.
Leadership goes to a maximum of ten.
That said, Mob Rule says pretty clearly "Ork mobs may choose to substitute the number of Orks in the mob for their normal Leadership value." So if you're targeting an individual Ork, you'd use his leadership.
Which codex is soul devourer in?
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Yeah, I also consider that the Mob rule only applies to Mobs (said like that it's almost obvious.)
Soul Devourer is a Daemonic Gift in the Chaos Daemons Codex. If you can help me out with this it would be great.
Wordings of the both rules are exactly like I typed in the original post, though. Should be atleast.
Mob Rule! applies to each and every Ork in the unit. The orks are not using another's LD. Under Mob Rule, each and every ork has the new LD value (thus in a mob of 9, each ork is LD 9).
Fearless only applies to Morale/pinning checks. It does not apply to any other type of LD tests such as psychic tests or abilities like Soul Devourer.
Well, I now asked another Ork playing friend of mine and even he said that the rule only talks about Ork Mobs and cannot say for sure. So where is this ruling of it applying to single Orks coming from, instead of the rules wording, which only affects an Ork Mob, a mob of orks as a whole, word to word. The point now is, how do we know if it affects singular models or just the Ork mob (like it actually says in the rule.) Nowhere in the Codex it is clarified...
And it is resolved as following:
10 or 11 orcs = LD test on a value of 10
12 orcs (fearless) = LD test on the base LD value of the orc getting hit?
Last edited by RunicFIN; October 7th, 2009 at 19:22.
I see what you're saying with the mobs vs individual orks thing, but I think the orks still get the leadership bonus against Soul Destroyer. If a 'mob of orks' gets to use an improved leadership score, that means that each individual ork has the improved leadership. This is because a 'mob of orks' doesn't actually have a leadership score; rather, the individual orks who make up the mob have one. It is not the unit which has a particular leadership, initiative, weapon skill, or whatever, it is the models in that unit.
Further, 'ork mobs' refers to groups of orks. Even if he is targetted individually, the ork getting hit by SD is still part of that group. If orks had a rule which gave 'ork mobs' +1 toughness in units of 10 or more, would you expect an ork to lose that bonus if only one member of the unit were hit by a bolter shot?
Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.
If that Bolter shot had a rule "models own toughness" and the Ork Mob rule would only mention Mobs like it does now, yes I would. Since it would be the exact same thing as it is with SD and Leadership. But I'll take 3 votes for Ork Mob and 3 "No idea" votes making the Ork Mob the winner.
Now if someone can tell me what leadership is used when the mob is Fearless. At the point where they are fearless the calculation of leadership from the number of orks is practically disabled. Is it the basic leadership of the said model that will be used when a model is Fearless against Soul Devourer?
Extending your quote of the Ork Mob rule to one sentence ahead of your quoteThis will give you each of the Orks in the unit or 'Ork mob' leadership value.Originally Posted by Ork Codex; pg 31
When the mob contains 11 or more models, it (the unit) then has the fearless rule. This does not change the above rule, as each ork in the mob may still use the number of orks left in the unit as his leadership value. Keeping in mind that the LD characteristic score used can never be above 10.
So you only really have 4 usuable Ork Leadership values. 10, 9, 8, 7 (his normal value). The others if you have less than 6 in the mob you can choose to use a lower value, but only in ultra rare circumstances I don't think anyone would.