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To any one concerned,
I am relatively new to the game and have played a handful of games; I am beginning to understand the basics.
However I have a few questions concerning the shooting phase.
From my understanding it is as follows –
Roll the dice / see if it’s greater than your weapon skill. (I am space marines so 3+ hits)
From any that where 3+ you roll to wound.
This is where my trouble comes in I was under the impression that you compared the weapons armour pricing value against the targets toughness to see if it just went straight through ( can some one please explain how this would occur. )
If they are entitled to a save you compare the weapons strength against the targets toughness consult the chart and see what it is you need to roll to wound.
If this is correct I would like to know how you guys are able to memorize that particular chart, from the few games I have played people can just roll and know immediately what the outcome is, and is there some sort of simple relation that I am missing?
If this shooting phase is not correct please let me know how to shoot, as it seems like a pretty big chunk of the game
Thank you for your help and Kind Regards
W1 / L1 / D1
No,first you roll from your BS (ballistic skill).Then if you hit you compare the opponents toughness (t) and your weapons strength,which you also compare on the chart in the rulebook,then if the armour piercing is higher then the victims armour save, the opponent may take a save from his armour if he rolls less than the armour save,then the model is dead and removed from play
You nominate a unit, you nominate its target, you check range. All guns that are eligible to fire (no heavy weapons if your unit has moved, no guns that are out of range, etc etc) may roll to hit.
Your to hit roll in ranged combat is not at all affected by your weapon skill. Its defined by your ballistic skill, and you have to roll at least 7-[BS] to hit (at least that's true for BS 0 to 5, for BS 6 and up there are special rules as listed on page 18 of the main rulebook). So for your standard Space Marine every roll of 3 or more (7-4) is a hit. This is explained on page 17 of the rulebook.
For every hit, you roll to wound. Your chance to wound depends on your weapon's strength and that target's toughness. You have a 50% chance of wounding if weapon strength and target toughness are equal (so a S4 weapon on a T4 target wounds on 4+), the chance increases by 1/6 for every point the weapon's strength is higher than the target's toughness (so a S5 weapon wounds a T4 target on a 3+) or decreases by 1/6 for every point the weapon's strength is lower than the target's toughness (so a S3 weapon wounds a T4 target on a 5+). You can never do better than 2+, though, and you can still wound a target whose toughness beats your weapon's strength by 3 points on a 6+ (even though you need that 6+ already for a target whose toughness is 2 points higher than your weapon's strength).
The chart is on page 19 of the main rulebook.
For every wound inflicted your opponent may then possibly roll a saving throw. In case of armor saves you compare the target's armor save with your weapon's armor piercing value. If the AP value is equal to or lower than the armor save, the armor save can't be taken against wounds from that weapon type (example: armor save of 5+ can't be taken against an AP5 or AP3 weapon, but it could be taken against an AP6 or AP- weapon). This is explained on page 20 of the main rulebook.
Cover and invulnerable saves may always be taken, unless the weapons have special rules that prevent this. Space Marine whirlwinds for example have an ammo type that ignores cover saves, while the Grey Knight's incinerator ignores invulnerable saves.
Every shot that hit, wounded and wasn't saved inflicts a casualty and makes your opponent lose a wound, which is mostly equal to an entire model. Hope that helps to clear things up!
Well, to put it more simply than that.
You roll to see if you hit. (7 - BS so a SM would be 7 - 4 = 3+ to hit or a guardsman would be 7 - 3 = 4+ to hit.)
You roll to see if you wound. (this is the strength of the weapon compared to the toughness of the model. If the S and T are the same then its 4+ to wound. Greater S means its eaiser to wound or a greater toughness means its harder to wound.)
Roll for an armour save. (this is the ap of the weapon compared to the models armour save. The AP needs to be the same as or lower than the targets armour to go through it otherwise the model gets an armour save.)
Here's an example, A Space Marine shoots at an Eldar Guardian. The SM needs a 3+ (BS 4) to hit, then he would need a 3+ (S4 vs T3) to wound then the EG wouldn't have an armour save because he only has 5+ armour and a boltgun is AP 5.
That's the nuts and bolts of it. Everything else is explained in more detail in the 5th Ed rule book along with other types of shooting such as against vehicles, blast weapons, special weapon rules ie meltas etc.
Bah, beaten to the punch!
Last edited by Pheonix Lord; October 12th, 2009 at 11:25.
I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand
Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
It most certanly did,
Thanks for your help so
BS to see if i can hit,
Compare the strenght of the weapon against the toughness ( using the chart untill i get my head around this all. ) to see what i need to roll to make a wound.
for any wounds compare the arounor pericing value against the targets toughness if equal or lower then can not take an armour save but could take a cover save ( if there are in cover )
W1 / L1 / D1
Remember, target toughness was used with the to wound procedure. For saving throws you have to compare AP to the targets Sv value. If it is lower than the AP it may take an armor save (but may still opt to use cover instead if that grants the model a better save).
The trick I found to "memorising" the wounding table is basically, if your S and their T are equal, its 4+, whereas if your S is 1 higher, then it becomes one dice value easier, so 3+, if your S is 2 higher or more, then its another point easier, so 2+. And the other way around, if your S is one lower than their T, then its 1 point harder on the dice, so goes up to 5+, if your S is 2 lower, 2 points harder, so 6+
Hope this helps
Simple way to look at it: the weapon`s AP value is the kind of save it`ll punch through. Obviously, it`ll go through any saves that are worse than its AP, too - if a Marine doesn`t get his 3+ save against an AP3 Krak missile, a Guardsman`s 5+ save is totally out the window, too!
So a Bolter`s AP5 will go through a Guardsman`s 5+ armour with no save allowed (AP5 goes through Armour 5. ...And armour 6 too, obviously.)
An Autocannon comes with an AP4 rating, so it`ll blow through Marine Scouts and Guard Stormtroopers, both with 4+ armour. (AP4 vs. Armour 4. )
Lasguns are AP-, meaning they`re too weak to even get an AP rating - everything with a save gets to take it against Lasgun shots.
And then there`s the Meltagun, with a monstrous AP1! This thing would still fry you if you somehow had an invincible 1+ Armour save, so nobody ever gets an armour save, not Terminators, Marines, Guard, Orks... Nothing.
Of course, Cover and invulnerable saves are always allowed unless something specifically negates them (Flamers ignore cover, Psycannons ignore invulnerable, Incinerators ignore both...)