Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Yes. The Marines can assault. The rules are very clear on this matter
Yes. The Marines can assault. The rules seem to suggest this course of action
The rules are not very clear on this matter.
No. The Marines cannot assault. The rules are very clear on this matter
No. The Marines cannot assault. The rules seem to suggest this course of action
::: ADDED BY RABBIT :::
If Marine Squad A wipes out at range Orc Squad A using assault weapons, can Marine Squad A then assault Orc Squad B (Assume Orc Squad B is within charging distance of Marine Squad A)?
::: ENDED BY RABBIT :::
Lets say you shoot, none rapid fire weapons at a unit and wipe them out. But you are still in range to charge multiple units. Would you still be able to assault?
I dont see this example in the rule book anywhere. Nor does it mention what happens if in the shooting phase you wipe a squad. However, in dealing with transport, if you shoot it and pop the transport you are able to assault the unit inside. With that unit that popped the transport and any other unit in range.
This is also not in the disallowed assault rule. So my problem is that book doesnt say you cant do it. Nor does it say it can be done. As far as I can tell. The only thing it does say for sure, if you need to assault the unit you shot at, with the exception of a multiple unit assault. It just doesnt say what you can do if the unit that you shot is gone.
What is the ruling on this??
Last edited by Rabbit; October 16th, 2009 at 16:34.
assaulting multiple units is just a bonus to assaulting your primary target. And since that primary target must be the one you shot at (if you shot at something), and this unit is completely wiped out, you can not assault at all this turn. Unfortunately.
The exception is the transport with passengers that you mentioned. If you wipe out the transport you may assault the passengers instead.
Then why would you be able to do it for a transport?? Its 2 seperate kill points and 2 seperate units. And you arent charging what you shot at. aka the transport.
This is a very inconsistent rule. Which is my biggest problem. No where does it say you can not assault?? It doesnt say its a disallowed assault. It just states that you need to charge what you shot at, with the exception of multiple assaults. Which it would be if the unit was still there. Which is the same thing as the transport not being there.
Well for a start the transport and passengers will be in pretty much the same place. Shooting and assaulting the same unit is basically you running at someone firing your guns - and if they die, well your concentration isn't on anyone else so you can't move at them.
Basically, if you definitely want to assault someone remember you don't have to fire ALL your guns. So fire half, and hope you don't get too lucky!
Page 33 of the rulebook states that a unit that shot in the shooting phase may only assault the unit it shot at. Page 34 of the rulebook says that you can also engage other enemy units within range once you have charged the unit you want to assault with your closest model. The latter is not an exception from disallowed assaulting - you are still assaulting the unit you shot at, but on top of that you are also engaging other targets as a bonus.
If the unit you shot at is wiped out you can't assault it. But since you shot in the shooting phase and are thus only allowed to assault the unit you shot at (which isn't there anymore) you can't assault at all. Passengers that were forced to disembark from their transport by vehicle damage are an exception because the rulebook states so on page 67.
This may seem inconsistent to you, but such are the rules. Don't blame me for them. Look at it as if though the transport and its passengers are one target. They can't be targeted separately in the shooting phase. Shooting at the transport automatically means you also kind of shoot at the passengers inside of it, and if you would like to shoot at the passengers you would automatically aim your shots at the transport. So you could consider them parts one and the same unit for that purpose, so that killing part of that unit you shot at (the transport) doesn't keep you from assaulting the other part of that unit (the passengers)...
As for fluff: think of it as your unit charging towards the enemy unit blasting away with their weapons on the move. If the approached the transport in such a way and they kill it with their shooting they still keep moving in that direction to kill off the passengers in the wreck or amongst the debris. It's still just completing their intended move.
If your unit does the same thing to an enemy squad and annihilates it with shooting there's nothing there to complete their move to. Charging a different unit would mean swiveling around and attempting a different move. Sure, in some situations this doesn't come to bear, as the next unit may be directly behind the one you wiped out and still in charge range so you could in fact just complete your move if the rules allowed you to.
But the rules are just rules and they can't be too complicated, have too many exceptions, etc. They need to be good for the majority of situations, and this is why GW just ruled that you may only assault the target you shot at, if you shot. Or the passengers of a transport if you shot at and destroyed or exploded the latter...
So even if the unit was standing right ontop of the other unit, because one got wiped. I couldnt charge, because I would just stand there and look at them instead while they charge me. That seems very stupid. Considering they were right there with the unit i had to target.
And since the rule is forcing me to target a unit which is no longer there. I have to stand there and not assault multi units. But if they were in a transport then its ok.
The basic problem is in the book there is no, disallowed assault if you wipe out what you shot at. It doesnt actually say what to do if the unit you shot at does not exist anymore. It just states, that you must charge what you shot at, however with the exception of multiple assaults. Hell it doesnt say i cant charge corpses either i suppose. But I can charge a unit that i did not shoot at if they come from a wrecked vehicle.
Its not like you would not be able to make your assault, its just there is no unit to assault, because they are dead. Just like the transport. Which is also dead, and now has troops nearby to assault.
Is there and FAQ, on the scenario?
This is such a GREY area, its pissing me off.
Dealing with GW rules can only be done if you stick to the letters. And then it isn't a grey area at all. It doesn't directly disallow assaulting if the unit you shot at got wiped out. But it disallows assaulting units other than the one you shot at and it disallows assaulting something that isn't there (models removed as casualties) because that wouldn't be a legal assault move. Thus it does in fact very well disallow assaulting if you wipe out the unit you shot at. Unless it's a transport that had passengers...
Don't ask me why the rules are the way they are or if they make any particular sense, but they are pretty clear on this case. To avoid the problem all you have to do is anticipate how many models your shooting will most probably kill and just refrain from shooting some of your guns as to assure their is still something left for you to assault.
To solve your issue, target the unit that is farther or behind the unit you truly want to engage, but still in range. They will get a cover save, which works to your advantage, you soften up to further unit, charge them, and in doing so, you can multi-charge the unit in front.
Unless you unit has some rule forcing to shoot/assault the closest unit, you should be fine.
Continuing, if you read a little farther down on page 33, under the title heading Disallowed Assaults, "it (your squad) cannot assault a different unit than the one it previously shot at." This statement precludes all other possible scenarios of assault beside the enemy unit which your squad targeted during the shooting phase. We really don't need any other specific conditions, such as, What happens when I wipe the entire enemy squad out during the shooting phase, because the stipulation for a legal assault a defined by such words as "only" & "cannot."
Last edited by Rabbit; October 15th, 2009 at 18:25.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
There is no period after "shot at." Its a comma, and says however in multiple assault etc.