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  1. #1
    Junior Member SHREDHED's Avatar
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    Transports and allies

    Our small gaming club has a game coming up.

    5000 points a side of 2500 chaos / 2500 tau versus 2500 space marines / 2500 space marines.

    Now, the space marine alliance is made up of all Ultramarines, basically 5000 points with two seperate force organisations.

    A question has arisen, will space marines of one side of the alliance be able to use the transports of the other space marine allied force or will this be considered an unfair advantage, even though their rhinos, razorbacks and land raiders are identical in game terms (and indeed paint jobs) and COULD theoretically transport ANY space marine unit?

    Thoughts?


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  3. #2
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    There are no rules for that.
    The (German) big rulebook only states that the transported unit must be infantry and it mustn't exceed transport capacity (and some other restrictions, like terminators who mustn't embark on rhinos or razorbacks, etc). On dedicated transports (rhinos and razorbacks) it even mentions that only "friendly" units may embark. But the term "friendly" isn't defined within the rules (as far as I know) and therefore could be argued to mean "same detachment" or "same side in the battle".

    I guess it is best to just find an agreement with your opponents beforehand. Personally I'd opt that transport can only be used within the same detachment. Otherwise you might suddenly have Necron warriors riding rhinos and stuff like that... (No, don't ask me why Necrons would ally with Space Marines...)

  4. #3
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHREDHED View Post
    Our small gaming club has a game coming up.

    5000 points a side of 2500 chaos / 2500 tau versus 2500 space marines / 2500 space marines.

    Now, the space marine alliance is made up of all Ultramarines, basically 5000 points with two seperate force organisations.

    A question has arisen, will space marines of one side of the alliance be able to use the transports of the other space marine allied force or will this be considered an unfair advantage, even though their rhinos, razorbacks and land raiders are identical in game terms (and indeed paint jobs) and COULD theoretically transport ANY space marine unit?

    Thoughts?
    If you have separate FOC’s like you say then you have separate armies.
    I would argue that the Rhino’s were bought for its owning force out of its own point budget and therefore can not be used for any other force no matter how similar it is.

    Please see page 87 “Multiple Detachments,” last sentence – ‘each detachment will be a separate army.’

    Otherwise where does the line-crossing stop?
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  5. #4
    Son of LO thenewKhan's Avatar
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    i would say they cannot mount the allies rhinos. If you let them, then what would keep the chaos player from putting a unit of Khornate Berzerkers and Lord in a tau transport?

    i can see where the argument comes in, they are both ultramarines, why would the discriminate? but fact is, they are two different lists, therefore 2 different armies. it simply wouldnt be fare for them to have the extra flexibility over the chaos n tau guys.

  6. #5
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    5k per side could easily use the Apocalpyse rules (and in fact I would recommend it). If you do, then any army can ride in any transport. If not, then you can only ride in your OWN transports, regardless of the fact you share a codex.
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

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    I tend to play the rules a little loosely, so I would not mind two armies using each other's transports. The only stipulation I would add is that units from one army are not allowed to actually start in a transport belonging to another, which mitigates most of the advantage of shared transports.

    Think about it. Turn 1, a squad of Khorne berserkers hops out of their rhino and moves towards a Tau transport, while the Tau hop out and move towards the rhino. Remember, only one unit may embark/disembark from a transport a turn, meaning neither unit will actually get into the other vehicle. This means at least one full turn of shooting at the squishy cargo being shuffled around. Turn 2, the squads embark, and the transports are off. Now, I'm not sure on whether or not the Tau transport can turbo-boost after taking on passengers, or even if it can boost the full 24", but let's assume it can. Now, come turn 3 there's actually some options; the berserkers could disembark now and attempt to assault before the vehicle moves, or disembark after the vehicle moves, putting them closer but delaying their assault for another turn (I'm pretty sure Tau do not have open-topped or assault vehicles). In this time, the rhino could have moved 30" (12", 12", and 6") and disembarked and moved their cargo. I'm not sure if the chaos rhino can be an assault vehicle, but I'm pretty sure that's more likely than a Tau transport having it. At best, switching to the Tau transport nets an extra 18", no assault coming out, and two turns of exposing the zerkers to fire.

    TLDR; I would let them do it. It's not that big an advantage.

    Although Apocolypse rules do kind of negate the purpose of any real discussion on this topic, anyway. ^^; As long as it's over 3k per side, just go by those.

  8. #7
    Bugs'r us! Blood_Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axle_Gear View Post
    I tend to play the rules a little loosely, so I would not mind two armies using each other's transports. The only stipulation I would add is that units from one army are not allowed to actually start in a transport belonging to another, which mitigates most of the advantage of shared transports.

    Think about it. Turn 1, a squad of Khorne berserkers hops out of their rhino and moves towards a Tau transport, while the Tau hop out and move towards the rhino. Remember, only one unit may embark/disembark from a transport a turn, meaning neither unit will actually get into the other vehicle. This means at least one full turn of shooting at the squishy cargo being shuffled around. Turn 2, the squads embark, and the transports are off. Now, I'm not sure on whether or not the Tau transport can turbo-boost after taking on passengers, or even if it can boost the full 24", but let's assume it can. Now, come turn 3 there's actually some options; the berserkers could disembark now and attempt to assault before the vehicle moves, or disembark after the vehicle moves, putting them closer but delaying their assault for another turn (I'm pretty sure Tau do not have open-topped or assault vehicles). In this time, the rhino could have moved 30" (12", 12", and 6") and disembarked and moved their cargo. I'm not sure if the chaos rhino can be an assault vehicle, but I'm pretty sure that's more likely than a Tau transport having it. At best, switching to the Tau transport nets an extra 18", no assault coming out, and two turns of exposing the zerkers to fire.

    TLDR; I would let them do it. It's not that big an advantage.

    Although Apocolypse rules do kind of negate the purpose of any real discussion on this topic, anyway. ^^; As long as it's over 3k per side, just go by those.
    Uhm it doesn't really work like that. You can not deploy other units in dedicated transports, but you just deploy both transports empty and shove them in turn one and do a full move...


    Back on topic, as said before I'd go for same detachment. But GW isn't that clear on the rules...
    'Thou shalt not refer to the Adeptus Soritas as "Bolter Bitches" nor shalt thou go anywhere near our sisters during the time of the "Red Rage," lest thou wishes to be the first human to enter orbit without the aid of a shuttle.'

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