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I have a feeling I already know the answer to this question, but it seems prudent to ask anyway:
Say I have a unit of really weak models and a monstrous creature that is fearless assaulting the same squad.
My opponent, realizing his squad can't possibly hurt the monstrous creature, directs all of his attacks at the large squad of weak models. By the end of combat, he has caused more wounds than my large unit and monstrous creature combined, and now large unit must make a leadership check.
Now, does my monstrous creature still have to save against a number of wounds equal to the amount I lost combat by, even though no attacks were directed towards it at all? Is this affected at all by whether or not the large unit of weak models passes their morale check?
Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have pg. numbers for you, but yes, the MC is still affected by the combat resolution even if none of the attacks were directed towards it. In this case, being Fearless, that means taking armor saves as part of No Retreat! The smaller unit passing or failing it's morale check has no bearing on the MC taking armor saves.
- To ascertain the result of the combat all wounds caused by all units of one faction in the combat are tallied [page 41, big rulebook].
- Each unit that loses combat must check for morale [page 44, big rulebook]. Fearless units need not check for morale but suffer an additional number of wounds equal to the number of wounds their side lost combat by [page 44, big rulebook].
- The big monstrous creature in your example is fearless, and its side (it and the large squad of weak models together) lost combat. Therefore your answer is yes: it does suffer additional wounds equal to the amount of wounds its side lost combat by. And the outcome of the larger squad of weak model's morale test does not affect that in any way.
This isn't very logical and it is very dangerous for monstrous creatures. But this is what the rules say. You have to take care and avoid such situations...
Archon Charybdis posted simultaneously. Had I been able to read his post before posting mine I would have been able to save me the trouble...
You take no wounds on the MC
After the paragraph saying "For example after all blows are struck.... bla bla bla" The next paragraph goes on to day
"If none of the enemies involved in the combat against a fearless unit can actually hurt it, the unit does not suffer any wounds if its side is defeated in combat and simple continues to fight."
I had 30 orc boys charge some gaunts of mine, I sent my carni in knowing after the charge (Orcs are S4 on the charge) they could not hurt it (S3 could not hurt a pumped up carni). I had my oppennt try say because I lost 10 odd more gaunts my carni had to take 10 odd saves and proved him wrong.
For once GW has used logic, if not then there would be no point in multi assault. Would never go into it. Tbh only go into it for that one reason. To hold off tons of orcs I know that can not hurt me. Taking out the PW is a pain but there are ways to snip it (When your oppent sees you have enough power to blow apart a full squad of boys to just get the power claw they will just let him die so the rest of the squad goes down on the list of things to kill asap)
Huh, well I'm flabbergasted! I never noticed that before, and I'd never seen it come up or be mentioned in rules discussions. That said, it depends on whether or not in the original example the squad that won combat literally could not hurt the MC, or they just would've had to wound on 6's and get past a 2+ armor save and so chose to not attack it.
This is a rare occurrence which usually requires a T7 MC and lesser creatures assaulting a S3 unit; as Bassline points out.
In most circumstances, the models can actually hurt the MC, it would just be suicide to try. In these cases Red is correct, it would be unwise to multi-assault with some gaunts and a fex. As the fex can take a bunch of wounds it wouldn't normally be worried about.
If you charge a Tyrant or a Carnifex and a unit of gaunts into an SM squad, you will suffer No retreat wounds on your MC.
Quick query, the rule mentions that you have to be able to hurt it in the first place. now if no attacks are declared against the MC, could that be construed as not being able to wound?
The unit cannot hurt it because it hasnt attacked it.
Or am i just being far too picky?
Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature
Yeah, too picky there Heirodule. The difference is between the unit not being able to hurt the MC and choosing not to.
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