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Could do with some advice on this one please.
Firstly I can not find this in the BRB, and therefore assume that fearless units that lose combat v an all power weapon unit must take the wounds (no retreat) as if inflicted by power weapons (ie no armour saves). If they do not have an inv save then the amount of models equalling excess wounds are removed instantly.
Providing that statement is correct? What happens when you have a victorious unit with mixed cc weapon’s. Are the wounds taken as power weapons, or normal cc weapons or a mix of, and if so how is that calculated?
I acknowledge this does not come up very often as most fearless units have inv saves, but SM’s subject to sweeping advance can fall foul of this with no retreat.
It might be that excess wounds always get a save regardless of what weapons were used in the original combat, which solves the problem instantly?
"No Retreat" says that "All types of saving throws except cover saves can be taken against these wounds". It also says in the example that "...yadda yadda yadda...and will take three armour saves". So basically yes, models suffering wounds from No Retreat! will always be able to attempt to negate the wounds by using their own Save, whether that be an invulnerable or a normal armour save. Just remember that the wounds caused by the No Retreat! rule are only the result of a mathematical function, not from a particular type of weapon, and you won't go wrong.
Last edited by eiglepulper; January 9th, 2010 at 08:48. Reason: spelling
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Thanks for the prompt reply.
As i expected, saves a lot of hassle.
I had a question about this topic: I play the Chaos Daemons and my son plays the Space Marines. My Bloodletters lit in to his Tactical Squad with his Marines failing their leadership. I caught them in a sweeping advance, but I was told that he could get armour saves even though I was using power weapons that do not allow armour saves. Again in the rules it says "All types of saving throws except cover saves can be taken against these wounds". Now am I missing something? How can you get an armour save against weapons that cut through armour and do not allow an armour save? Also, does anyone know why Skulltaker has a ballistic score and no ballistic weapon? Does it bother anyone else that the Chaos Daemons cannot assault on the round they Deep Strike or that they could lose half their army simply by Deep Striking on the first turn? I wish I knew then what I know now.
[QUOTE=andrewbeater;1645704I caught them in a sweeping advance, but I was told that he could get armour saves even though I was using power weapons that do not allow armour saves. Again in the rules it says "All types of saving throws except cover saves can be taken against these wounds". Now am I missing something? How can you get an armour save against weapons that cut through armour and do not allow an armour save? [/QUOTE]
It's an abstraction, you're not actually getting extra attacks with said power weapon.
Charybdis is right. The wounds from No Retreat represent the unit getting overrun since they are not willing or able to fall back. Since all attacks from various weapons have already been determined for that round of close combat, it doesn't really make sense to think of these wounds as being from additional attacks. Think instead of these wounds being caused because the unit is getting trampled, cornered, or surrounded by onrushing forces they were unable to stop.
Because every model requires a ballistic score in order to have a complete statline, regardless of whether or not they're actually armed with a gun.Also, does anyone know why Skulltaker has a ballistic score and no ballistic weapon?
Think of it as how well he could shoot a gun if he had a gun. Which he does not.
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Come, sons of LO! Kneel before Poodle!
Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
But why bother with a ballistic score in the first place; most Chaos Daemons have a ballistic score of zero anyway (bloodletters, daemonettes, plaguebearers, screamers. beasts of nurgle etc, etc)? To me, you include a Ballistic score because your model has a weapon to fire at a distance, not just to fill in a stat line.
Sorry, to be more clear, Skulltaker has a ballistic score of 3 with no ballistic weapon.
It very possibly could be an oversight. Perhaps the unit was originally going to have a shooting attack, but that was taken out during editing.
Rulesmakers are not infallible!