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Thread: Pinning

  1. #1
    Member Shockingcat's Avatar
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    Pinning

    After looking around a bit I have not got any statisfaction of this rule.

    Do you taking a pinning test for each unsaved wound? For example a rattling squad causes 3 unsaved wounds into a squad, does the squad take 3 pinning tests?

    the rule can be found in pg.31 in the rulebook

    If a unit other than a vehicle suffers any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon, it must immediately take a pinning test.


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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    You would take one pinning test for each set of shots that cause pinning, assuming any wounds are unsaved. Note that it does not say "for each pinning weapon" or "for each wound". It only says "any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon".

    Example:
    Unit A shoots Unit C with a pinning weapon, inflicting one unsaved wound. Unit C takes a pinning test.
    Unit B then shoots Unit C with a pinning weapon, causing two unsaved wounds. Unit C takes a pinning test.

    Does this help?
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

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    Member Shockingcat's Avatar
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    yes it does I thank you, its just "from A pinning weapon" which it what raises questions

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    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    204 (x6)

    So you following the shooting sequence for each unit, and then...

    Quote Originally Posted by rulebook
    If a unit [...] suffers any wounds from a pinning weapon...
    Has the target suffered any number of wounds from a pinning weapon? If yes, then...

    Quote Originally Posted by rulebook
    ...it must immediately take a Pinning test.
    Notice the singular wording which suggest only one pinning test.

    This ruling is based on the concept of all shooting attacks within a unit being simultaneous, since you resolve all of those attacks before continuing to the next action, which could be anything from a pinning test to picking the next target with a new unit.

    --•-My 40K projects-•--

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    Cousin It Carnage's Avatar
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    i.e. one unit can take multiple pinning tests in one round of shooting, but not from the same unit shooting at it
    Never judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes...by that time they'll be a mile away, and have no shoes

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    Ender of Threads Wraith's Avatar
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    256 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSunder View Post
    yes it does I thank you, its just "from A pinning weapon" which it what raises questions
    That's referring to squads that can take pinning weapons alongside non-pinning weapons. Marine scouts can take a couple of Sniper rifles in a squad full of bolters, and IIRC, Tau pathfinders can take carbines along with pulse rifles. if it said "a squad with pinning weapons", the bolters and pulse rifles could be argued as causing pinning. Specifying the weapons within the squad means that they're treated separately.
    We've got plenty of youth... How about a fountain of smart?


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    I'm going to have to disagree

    example: Squad 1 with 3 sniper rifles on members (1,2,3) all cause wounds now Rules as Written "If a unit other than a vehicle suffers any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon, it must immediately take a pinning test." So member 1 has caused "any unsaved wound with a pinning weapon" , so has memeber 2, and 3.

    They each have " a pinning weapon" so why dont they all cause " a pinning test" ?

  9. #8
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    You quoted the reason yourself, Prince666. The rules say "a unit [...] suffers", but you argue "a weapon inflicted". Needless to say, that is not the same.

    All shooting from a single unit happens simultaneously. All casualties are removed simultaneously. All unsaved wounds from pinning weapons are applied simultaneously. You conduct the shooting, work out casualties, remove them, and then ask the question: has the unit suffered any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon? The answer is either no (when the unit has suffered no unsaved wounds from any pinning weapon) -in which case no pinning test is called upon-, or yes (when the unit has suffered one or more unsaved wounds from one or more pinning weapons) - in which case a pinning test is triggered.

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    Alright dont want to sound picky just want to undeniably certain, what ever the case is in the end.

    as you saind Red Archer "or yes (the rule: when the unit ... sufferes any (or as you put it "one or more") unsaved wounds from A (not any) pinning weapon") - in which case a pinning test is triggered.

    My point : So again 3 wounds from 3 different pinning weapons from the same squad, why dont they trigger 3 pinning tests?

    My Evidence: The Rule states " If A unit (single) ... suffers any ( many) unsaved wounds (many) from A pinning weapon (single), it must immediately take a pinning test"

    -Now in one understanding were the rules states "Any unsaved wounds" could just mean a weapon that cause more than one wound (e.g. vibrocannon) can still only cause one pinning test because it is still only one " A pinning weapon".-

    So too trigger a pinning test a unit only needs to suffer any unsaved wounds from A pinning weapon, So if it suffers 3 seperate wounds from 3 seperate pinning weapons (because as the rule says only needs to sufer any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon, and 3 snipers rifles are all undeniably 3 pinning weapons)... sorry... but again why doesnt it cause 3 seperate pinning tests ?

    Now about Pinning it can't be an argument about multiple tests the pinning rule explains that, so it can only really be an argument about A) the wording or B ) the effect it causes in relation to the shooting turn sequence.

    Now about A)

    Lets just draw Parallel with another rule of similar wording : Rending " Any roll of A 6 with A rending wending weapon automatically causes a wound... counts as AP2" So if i have 2 assault cannons in the same squad and roll 3 , 6's do they all count as AP 2 , because they are all "A Rending weapon"...Or is it "has any of the roll to wound a 6, then take one AP2 wound?" ... Or is it "has any of the roll to wound a 6 then all wounds are AP2 ?.

    Another Parrallel : Gets hot! " For each result of A 1 rolled on its to hits rolls, the firing model suffers a wound". So if I have 2 plasma guns both Get hot on a roll a 1, the firing model suffers " a wound", so effectively 1 wound for each model... Or is it "has any of the roll to hit of 1 on its to hit rolls, then take one wound?".

    Now both of those examples are cases where we (well from what i can understand the general community) use the first case and read the rules as they are written. After those are 1 or 2 cases (in italics) where the rules have been twisted slightly but they just arn't right (again I am only going of what i understand is the norm for those other rules, if otherwise would love to know your take on them) because the rules are not written that way.

    Now B ) there is no rule (as far as I can see, if there is point it out and this can be over with) that restricts the ammount of time a weapon(s) effects take place as long as it has satisfied it conditons ( A rending weapon wounding on 6, A pinning weapon causing any unsaved wounds to make the suffereing unit take a pinning check).

    Sorry for being picky and the length of that, just want to be sure, so either way I can argue this if someone tries to do it too me.
    Last edited by Prince666; February 24th, 2010 at 15:42.

  11. #10
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    For it to work that way Prince, it would need to say "a pinning test... for each pinning weapon."

    We're only told to take a test (singular). There is no language contained within the text that multiplies that number.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

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