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So I'm having a good time harassing a unit of Blood Angels with my Seraphim unit (I love the Hit and Run rule). And my opponent is unhappy with me, so he says,
"Well, when you fall back you have to use the scatter dice to determine where you fall back, otherwise you have to go back toward your deployment zone because technically you are 'falling back' even though you made your Leadership test",
so I disagreed with him and said,
"The rules in the Codex say nothing about scatter dice, besides, the SoB's are too disciplined to have such a wonky rule..try that with Orks, it might work better..."
He says as follow up,
"But even though you made your roll, you're fleeing combat, which is falling back, and it even says "falling back" in the description so you can either roll scatter, or go toward your table edge"
"But it says I can go in 'any' direction, therefore, I can choose"
"But it doesn't specifically say you can choose, it says 'any', therefore it should be random...see, it's just not clear..."
Any clarification out about this?
No, you move the models, so you choose the direction (Not going into contact, or to be more specific within 1" of a enemy model).
You don't have to read the dice off the top.
It doesn't specifically state that, so can you just read 6's off the side, bottom, top as you rolled them so they're all 6's, right?
It's not stated anywhere. It's a game. You may want to state that more diplomatically than I have to your opponent.
Edit: Just read p 35 of the WH codex. "the unit falls back 3D6" inches in any direction (chosen by you - if it was scatter, it would say so. You move them, you choose. This is my opinion in italics and brackets) and automatically regroups at the end of the move."
I'll be, they actually are technically broken (when they choose to fall back, but in ANY direction)
Some people would say you can't regroup within 6" of a opponent, and they'd be right, that is a rule. I know codex trumphs rulebook, however this seperate point is worth a discussion though.
(This, may well be argued against, and i for one would accept a discussion on it.)
Edit Edit: sorry, that last bit wasn't closing the discussion was it?
Last edited by stayscrunchyinmilk; February 19th, 2010 at 23:15.
Ask him where it specifically says that you roll a scatter die. The seraphim rule says they fall back 3d6 in any direction and automatically regroup. Therefore, you get to pick which direction they go. Codex overrides rulebook.
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"
Mind you, I'm not trying to start an argument with either of you (Thanks for replying!), but this guy is always a real stickler for rules, especially if they work in his favor...(I've known him for over a decade, and otherwise he's great fun to be around, but he is also competitive and a Rules Lawyer)
Last edited by Thom1111; February 19th, 2010 at 23:17.
They can fall back in any direction, not the specific direction indicated by the scatter die.
No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!
Right, pich up your WH codex and read with me:
"At the end of a a round of close combat, the seraphim may choose to break off if they and at least some of their close combat opponents do not have to fall back. The unit falls back 3D6" in any direction and automatically regroups at the end of the move (regardless of a enemy being within 6" or being below half strength).
Mine does not have the parenthetical qualifier "(chosen by you)" indicated in your post.
A player moves his models, he chooses where they go. If it were to a scatter dice, it would say so. If it were away from the enemy, they do tend to state that.
Also, they can only use this rule if they are not already falling back, or are being caused to fall back due to a failed die Ld roll in that CC phase
If they break in CC and fall back then they use the normal rules.
Does your Codex have that qualifier in it? If so then it must be in some errata I haven't found yet.
Read your codex then. The answers are in there. I was trying to explain.
I've been sitting here with my Codex opened on my lap since I made the OP. I was also not sure if you added that qualifier on your own or not!
i added the brackets on my own. i edited it to add "my comments" as you were posting your response, i guess i was bullish in my response.
seriously, that's my interpretation of it, but get others, i am not infalliable, and i'm the first to say so.
if you can't decide, think about it, it's a game, if you're kicking his ass and you want both parties to enjoy it, just go with a scatter dice as your house rule, or dice off for scatter / your choice.
This is, in fact, incredibly clear. Hit and Run allows you to fall back in any direction, not "a random direction." You move the models, you pick the direction.
Your friend is a sore loser.
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Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
Its clear as day. It says any direction, which would be your choice. The shooting rules in the BGB say that a unit usually shoots at any target in range and LOS...does that mean that you and your friend have to randomly determine where each unit shoots among the available targets each turn? Ofcourse not, you get to choose.
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