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  1. #1
    Member ShadyVillian's Avatar
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    Fearlessness. Good or bad?

    Well I'd like to get some peoples thoughts on this topic. Do you consider being fearless good or bad? I mean yes you auto pass morale tests and what not but some people I talk to avoid because of "no retreat". Do you think this is the wrong way to look at it?


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    Senior Member Archon Charybdis's Avatar
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    I consider it a wash generally. It's just a different ability set basically.

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    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    Stubborn is generally preferable for high-Ld armies because it gives you a greater chance of passing the test and avoiding the No Retreat wounds. Speaking as a Space Marine player, combining Stubborn with Rites of Battle is much better and has the added benefit of being army-wide. ATSKNF serves as a safety net, since the worst-case scenario is that you lose combat, fall back, get caught, and take No Retreat wounds - which for a Fearless unit in the same situation is really the best case scenario, which is why I don't like Fearless a whole lot.

    Your Fearless unit is given the dubious advantage of automatically passing morale tests even when the situation is so hopeless that it would be preferable to fail, and on top of that the "advantage" is "balanced" by the unit then taking additional wounds, as if the fact that they're losing the combat wasn't bad enough. You could lose five models in one round and then suddenly lose two or three more solely because you have already lost, making the average Marine player rage his pants off at his Chaplain and wish he still had Combat Tactics and ATSKNF.

    Other armies, like Chaos, Orks and IG, have access to morale re-rolls that are equally preferable to Fearless because, like passing a test with Stubborn, it will dodge the No Retreat wounds. Obviously, the best-case scenario is to have an ability like Calgar's, which allows you to pick whatever result you damn well like.
    Last edited by ze_poodle; March 21st, 2010 at 08:33.
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    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    I'm with ze_poodle on this - give me Stubborn any day of the week! This is the main reason I won't be taking Astorath with the new BA codex, because Furious Charge isn't quite compensation enough for losing ATSKNF for Fearless and I don't want this to happen to half my units.
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    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Fearless is still better in the shooting phase, but assaults make it worse than Stubborn overall.

    However, Stubborn doesn't seem quite as good on the off chance you do fail Ld and fall back off the board edge or get swept!

    Both rules have merit. I think Fearless just became more specialized. The problem is that some armies (like Daemons) are assault oriented and make heavy use of Fearless, which is no longer suited to that style of play. GW will probably stay with Fearless for those units, but will now have to compensate for Fearless as handicap.

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    Yes I totally agree it does hurt you in assault. As a Space Wolves player i don't have too much to worry about regarding being fearless(except a wolf priest). Though it would greatly help shooting armies. I've seen a few fire warrior squads get shot just a little, fail their Ld and run off the edge of board all in one turn.

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    Senior Member Sancraer's Avatar
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    2+ save (or a good save w/ FNP) and with (heavy) shooting units fearless is pretty darn good.
    Combat units and shooty hit and run units despise it though, however, it helps with sweeping advances a lot when concerning the close shooty units.

    Stubborn is better but replacing sweeping advance (=no units) with no retreat (couple of wounds, saves allowed) is a good trade-off.

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    Fearless is better hands down. First off, compare it to basic non-fearless troops (ie, not marines).
    - Fearless units don't break from shooting
    - Fearless units can't be pinned involuntarily
    - Fearless units can't be sweeping advanced
    - Psyker battle squads can't weaken their resolve (or can, but it has no effect)

    The "drawback"? Instead of taking an LD test at -5 and potentially having your squad fail & get wiped out, you take armor saves instead. I'd hardly call having to take armor saves instead of having the chance to lose the entire squad a drawback.


    Comparing fearless to units with ATSKNF is a little different... the main advantage of being fearless (prior to the new IG codex) was to not be able to be swept. ATSKNF avoids that by taking the no retreat wounds only if you break & get caught. This has its problems, too, though. For example, if you break from combat and get away, you can be escorted off the board since ATSKNF doesn't let you rally with enemies within 6".

    Another thing that has come up recently with the IG codex is the Weaken Resolve power from the Psyker Battle Squads. Kinda sucks to have to take a LD test at 2 with your LD 10 unit.. and again able to be escorted off the board if/when you fail. Fearless units don't have that particular issue. Blood Angel's Fear the Darkness power won't affect fearless units, either.

    So yeah, Fearless > Non-fearless.

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    I think it hurts demons though, becuase of there low save.

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    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moob View Post
    ]Comparing fearless to units with ATSKNF is a little different... the main advantage of being fearless (prior to the new IG codex) was to not be able to be swept.
    It's still distinctly poo when compared to abilities like Stubborn, for example, or abilities which allow morale test re-rolls. Fearless has the best effect for armies with generally low Ld scores, like IG, Tyranids and Orks, the latter being easily able to access Fearless on a large scale.

    Kinda sucks to have to take a LD test at 2 with your LD 10 unit.. and again able to be escorted off the board if/when you fail. Fearless units don't have that particular issue. Blood Angel's Fear the Darkness power won't affect fearless units, either.
    I should hope that when you say leadership test, you mean "morale or pinning test", because that is all Fearless grants an automatic pass to. If it granted an automatic pass to all leadership tests it would allow psykers to pass psychic tests automatically, and be ridiculous.
    The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.

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