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  1. #1
    Senior Member sendaf's Avatar
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    Who attacks first?

    After playing fantasy for awhile I recently played a game of 40k, and needless to say I can't seem to remember or find some of the rules. Here are two scenarios I would like a quick answer to.

    1. Does the attacking unit get +1 attack and attack first on the charge? Then followed by initiative order in the following rounds of combat?

    2. Scenario: A unit of orks that attacks a unit of marines are locked in close combat. The following turn, a unit of terminators charge the ork boyz. In this round of combat, do the ork boyz in base contact to the terminators attack the terminators, and the ork boyz in base contact with the marines attack the marines? Or can the whole unit of ork boyz attack only one unit - just the terminators or just the marines?

    Thanks

    "Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Archon Charybdis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendaf View Post
    1. Does the attacking unit get +1 attack and attack first on the charge? Then followed by initiative order in the following rounds of combat?
    There's no such thing as ASF or Strikes Last in 40k anymore. Units that charge only benefit from the +1 attack (and any other charge-dependent special rules like Furious Charge), but strike in their normal initiative order. For example, if a Space Marine Assault Squad charged a squad of Eldar Harlequins, the Harlequins with their higher initiative would still attack first.

    2. Scenario: A unit of orks that attacks a unit of marines are locked in close combat. The following turn, a unit of terminators charge the ork boyz. In this round of combat, do the ork boyz in base contact to the terminators attack the terminators, and the ork boyz in base contact with the marines attack the marines? Or can the whole unit of ork boyz attack only one unit - just the terminators or just the marines?
    The ones in b2b with the marines may attack the marines, the ones in b2b with the terminators may attack the terminators, any in b2b with both must choose who they're allocating their individual attacks to. So for example an ork with 2 attacks, who is in base contact with both a regular Marine and a Terminator, can split those attacks between the two squads.

  4. #3
    Senior Member sendaf's Avatar
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    alright, thanks alot that clears things up perfectly!
    "Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"

  5. #4
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Charybdis View Post
    There's no such thing as ASF.......
    I assume that 'ASF' stands for 'Always strikes First,' and it does indeed exist within the Dark Eldar Codex for Wyches - curious that an Archon should miss this point though.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

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    Senior Member Archon Charybdis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicky View Post
    I assume that 'ASF' stands for 'Always strikes First,' and it does indeed exist within the Dark Eldar Codex for Wyches - curious that an Archon should miss this point though.
    As an artifact from 3rd edition I'm not really counting it, it's not a part of the core rules anymore. Whenever a new dex rolls around, if combat drugs exist in the same capacity, it's going to become I10 the way Banshee Masks did.

  7. #6
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Charybdis View Post
    As an artifact from 3rd edition I'm not really counting it, it's not a part of the core rules anymore. Whenever a new dex rolls around, if combat drugs exist in the same capacity, it's going to become I10 the way Banshee Masks did.
    And yet this 'artifact' is still present within the current Dark Eldar FAQ.

    It possible that the ASF maybe usurped by Initiative 10 right across the board one day but on the other hand it adds a dimension to the game that would not exist otherwise.
    Like the Assaulting Through Cover terrain test that lowers initiative to 1 - the combat drug ASF negates this penalty nicely and thats something initiative 10 is never going to do.

    Anyway, enough of me hijacking this thread.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  8. #7
    jboweruk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Charybdis View Post
    There's no such thing as ASF or Strikes Last in 40k anymore. Units that charge only benefit from the +1 attack (and any other charge-dependent special rules like Furious Charge), but strike in their normal initiative order. For example, if a Space Marine Assault Squad charged a squad of Eldar Harlequins, the Harlequins with their higher initiative would still attack first.



    The ones in b2b with the marines may attack the marines, the ones in b2b with the terminators may attack the terminators, any in b2b with both must choose who they're allocating their individual attacks to. So for example an ork with 2 attacks, who is in base contact with both a regular Marine and a Terminator, can split those attacks between the two squads.
    Actually no, you need to re-read that part, if they are already in base contact with the marines, then are charged by the termies, they MUST attack the marines, since they were in base contact with them at the start of the combat. That is of course only on the turn the termies charge, on subsequent turns they can divert their attacks.
    Last edited by jboweruk; April 2nd, 2010 at 10:27. Reason: Forgot something

  9. #8
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboweruk View Post
    Actually no, you need to re-read that part, if they are already in base contact with the marines, then are charged by the termies, they MUST attack the marines, since they were in base contact with them at the start of the combat. That is of course only on the turn the termies charge, on subsequent turns they can divert their attacks.
    Complete shenanigans. Start of combat does not refer to the start of the Assault Phase. It clearly refers to the point where you determine who is engaged in combat. Charges do not affect the status of engagement.

    Consider this, and consider it well:
    If the start of the "combat" or "fight" was at the beginning of the assault phase, before charges, then no attacks could be thrown on a new close combat, ever... and charge bonuses would never go into effect.
    Last edited by psichotykwyrm; April 2nd, 2010 at 10:53.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
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  10. #9
    jboweruk
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    I didn't say the beginning of the assault phase, I said the 'beginning of the combat' as in when the orks first locked into the fight with the marines. They were 'in base contact' with the 'marines' at the beginning of the combat, so when they are later charged by the terminators, they MUST attack the squad they were in base contact with at the 'beginning of the combat', in this case the marines, they can't turn around and hit the termies because their attention is already focussed on attacking/defending against the marines.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Archon Charybdis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboweruk View Post
    I didn't say the beginning of the assault phase, I said the 'beginning of the combat' as in when the orks first locked into the fight with the marines. They were 'in base contact' with the 'marines' at the beginning of the combat, so when they are later charged by the terminators, they MUST attack the squad they were in base contact with at the 'beginning of the combat', in this case the marines, they can't turn around and hit the termies because their attention is already focussed on attacking/defending against the marines.
    Check the Assault Phase Summary on pg. 33; moving assaulting units into base contact is the first step of the assault phase, done well before that rounds combat actually starts. Further, on pg. 41 it even tells us specifically that before combat means "before any model attacked." Clearly, the terminators are moved into assault before any attacks are made, before the combat begins. By the definition on pg. 41, the orks can turn around and attack the terminators.
    Last edited by Archon Charybdis; April 2nd, 2010 at 16:58.

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