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We are playing a mission out of the Necron list and one of the special rules is that all unit on the first turn must pass a leadership test to shoot or assault on the first turn. Given that vehicles do not have a leadership value I think that they would not be able to fire. Am I wrong?
Unless it specifically says in the mission entry, or codex entry for said vehicles that you are using use a specific leadership value, then no.
EDIT: Though it is not uncommon in house games that people use a universal rule that all vehicles have a leadership of 10 in the rare case they are forced to take a leadership test.
Last edited by MylesTheTroll; June 12th, 2010 at 06:11.
Notable Achievements: Farseer w/ SS taking down a Monolith all by itself in one shooting phase. A Warlock w/ SS in a Guardian squad on an objective taking down a Soul Grinder in one Shooting phase. 2nd turn 2 DSing Trygon Primes going from 6-0 wounds during turn 3.
The other point to notice is that last sentence in the special rule which says that a unit which fails the Ld test "may not choose to run instead". Since vehicles can't run, the word "unit" must only be referring to non-vehicular units since only they would normally have the option to choose between shooting and running.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Walkers are vehicles who can run...
I also use the Vehicles = LD10 option that Miles mentions, since there is already a precedent in other rules for applying this - against some psychic effects for example.
I have too many armies to list in my signature!
I'm AFB right now, but isn't there a specific entry that states that vehicles are never required to take leadership tests, or or automatically assumed to pass leadership tests, as the crew's resolve and faith in their vehicle is unshakable?
My inclination would be they're simply unaffected by the ability, unless it makes a specific exception for them. They don't have a leadership, so it's just not applicable. Otherwise we'd have to start subjecting vehicles to other characteristic tests as well like S or I tests.
Last edited by Archon Charybdis; June 15th, 2010 at 00:46.
Given the possibility that there may be a small wager placed on a clear outcome of this question, what is the overall decision? As a rules helping force do you think the intentions of this mission are that no vehicles can fire the first turn of the game? It seems odd for a Necron mission where i personally feel the liths would want to be fireing as much as possible from the get go. Is it one of those situations where raw interfere with rai?
It seems to me the best way to deal with the situation would be to use the rules for psychic powers(though I am afb right now), which IMHO argues that vehicles can take leadership tests, its so infrequent it is not on their statistics, but they still can.
Also, if the intention was that vehicles cannot fire the first turn, wouldnt this be simply stated in the rules for the mission? It would be an incredibly easier way to state this if it was the intentions of the mission.
Ultimately I agree with Archon, if there is no leadership value in place, they are not affected by the mission rule. It is the simplest solution which will allow the game to proceed as intended by the acompanying fluff with the mission. If vehicles were to be affected I think the mission would read something like," Title: Double Cross Set up: Spies from both forces have tampered with their opponents vehicle weopndry, in the first turn vehicles in each army cannot fire their weopons as the gunners must fix the sabotaged equipment...." anything like this and I would say vehicles cannot fire the first turn, this is why specifically the writer of the mission (who may not be playing 5th) specifically mentions the term leadership test sincethis would be his way to avoid readdressing a situation which is obvious by the point of the scenario.
just my .02
One of the biggest reasons that I can come up with for not having vehicles fire on the first turn is that second player can get hosed from sniping vehicle fire as there is no chance for them to seize the initiative. Just because that they had Crons in mind when they made that mission, they had to keep in mind that other armies are going to play the same mission at some point (the same way that we did, ie Blood Angels vs Biker Marines). Case in point, we diced off on the rule as we could not come to an understanding on it and I lost. With all of your super cheap Razorbacks being able to move in off the table edge and fire, I lost most of my Landspeeder Typhoons which was most of my rhino stopagge. This is why I that I think they might of had it in mind to not have vehicles fire on the first turn as the Necron player starts at a huge advantage else if. Either way Vehicles are units with no leadership value and I do think money should be changing hands soon
Likewise the Dark Angel's 'mind worm' requires an Ld test but specifies immunity to units with no Ld stat to test against, and the Necrons themselves have things like the Deceiver's 'dread' - an Ld test that does not extend to models without Ld values.