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Sorry if this has already been addressed but I couldn’t find another post addressing it.
The core question here is when do you measure the distance to see if a squad is in range of the tyrant to gain the benefit of old enemies?
In my situation, I had a squad of termagants charge some plague marines. The termagant in the back of the unit was within 6” of the Tyrant (w/ the old enemies ability), but the rest of the squad was out of range, since I charged through difficult terrain my initiative dropped to 1 and the plague marines went first. They ended up only killing 1 model (thanks to catalyst) and without thinking I remove the one in the back. My initiative rolls around and now my termagants are not within 6” of the Tyrant. So do they get the benefit of the old enemies special rule (Preferred Enemy)?
So that takes me back to my question, exactly at what point do you measure for the tyrant’s old enemies special rule, and I guess this applies to the Tervigons rules to give the benefit of their Toxin Sacks & Adrenal Glands to termagants too.
Primary Army: Tyranids; Secondary Army: Space Wolves
It's Illeagle, but it' s not that illeagle. - John Public
Since both rules (Old Adversary and Brood Progenitor) do not mention any specific point in time and duration (like in "if [...] at the start of the [...] phase, they gain [...] until the next [...]), the rules are in effect as long as the prerequisite condition is met.
The prerequisite condition for both rules is being within 6" [pages 34 (Old Adversary) and 52 (Brood Progenitor) of Codex: Tyranids. If the bonuses conferred by the special rules are being used while the condition is met, everything is fine. If, at the time the bonuses would come into play, the condition is not met, then the special rules do not apply.
To answer your question: you always measure when the effects are being called upon.
In your example: the termagaunts had Preferred Enemy all along but couldn't use it. When they finally made their attacks, you have to measure whether Old Adversary is still in effect. It isn't, because they are not in range, thus do not fulfill the prerequisite condition. In this case they don't get to have Preferred Enemy either.
For this to be different, the rules would have to state a certain point in time when you check, and a certain duration for how long the bonus is conferred. But with these rules the bonuses are in effect as long as you are within range, and aren't if you are too far away - no matter for what reason.
Sorry. Hope that helps! May your dice fall favorably.
EDIT: ninja'd with so much more style by red archer, listen to him
Id say when you make your attacks, otherwise there are too many situations where the rules could cross over, for example if the tyrant dies first, if you were to measure say, at the start of the assault phase (the other likley time) then youd still get the bonus, despite the models death.
Im pretty sure thats the case anyway.
Last edited by Heirodule; July 26th, 2010 at 23:18.
Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature
The recent Blood Angels FAQ lends further credence to Red Archer's position, as it addresses an essentially identical situation with the Blood Chalice. In the case of the Blood Chalice, the FAQ says range is checked when the FNP or Furious Charge abilities are put to use. Now, this raises a thorny question of when Furious Charge is put to use, but in the case of FNP or Preferred Enemy it seems fairly clear that the ability is put to use when make the FNP roll or your models make their attacks.
Its quite clear that if you do not have a special rule, you do not get its benefits. Blood Angels that charge an enemy, moving out of Chalice range, no longer possess the rule. I find it hard to believe that folks tried to play it otherwise, but I guess I can understand that they *might* have confused it with the old rules.
Shouldn't have needed a FAQ answer, but then again many of the FAQ questions are just requotes of the rules in question.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes