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Ok back to basics. I am asking this question because of something I saw on t'internet recently, picture this in your minds eye.
The player in question (I shall call him Ed) has a Razorback (RZ) set up on his long board edge. The RZ is set up with its side armour flush to the board edge with the front armour facing right.
(1)Ed's first turn and he checks line of sight for the RZ.
(2)Pivots RZ about 85 degrees so its front ends up facing the opposite board edge but its rear armour ends up forward at least ¼ inch from the boarded edge. I am 100% certain the tread of the left hand track should have been touching the board edge
Ok let me explain the rules of vehicle movement as I see them. Vehicles turn by pivoting around their central point (page 57 BRB ), this means that in this case the vehicle must end up with its rear facing touching the board edge after it pivots, if it does not have its rear armour touching the board edge then the vehicle has moved.
It could be plainly seen that the vehicle had been “moved” away from the board edge, hence it moved. So we either have an illegal pivot move or a move.
So lets look at the rules for vehicle movement. It says a that only pivots is not classed as moving; however to be classed as pivoting the vehicle must only spin around its central axis. A vehicle pivoting when butted up against a board edge must end its pivot move with a part of it touching the board edge. If it ends up a quarter inch away it has not pivoted, it has moved. Ok now to the next part of the move.
(4) Ed Checks LOS again
(5) Next Ed Moves the Razor a good 1” to 1 ½” to left (is that is classed as a move?), then proceeds to pivot the model another 90 degrees so it is facing right (frontal armour).
Again I re-iterate the pivot rules. You can only pivot on the SPOT, the RZ moved a full inch minimum to the left, which is not pivoting. By this stage the vehicle has moved twice.
(6) Moves RZ sideways about 2 inches to final position, no pivot just a sideways shift
Now when a vehicle is moved it can move up to whatever distance it is eligible to move and can pivot as many times as the player pleases. The vehicle can move backwards and forwards as many times as you like up to its maximum allowable move allowance.
As far as I am aware moving a vehicle sideways without pivoting is not allowed. The rules state that vehicles turn by pivoting and that is the only way a vehicle can move to an area of the field to its side. So in the case above we have:
(a) an illegal pivot move
(b) illegal sideways moves
We now come to what constitutes a move or to be clearer, when does a move end? Let me clarify what I mean here. If I did the move above I would have pivoted the RZ to the direction of movement and then moved it to its final position and the move ends. if I wanted to change direction within the allowable move distance, I would pivot and then move.
In the example above the first pivot ended up with the vehicle a good quarter inch away from the board edge, hence it is either:
(a) an illegal pivot move
(b) the RZ moved
If it is (a) then the move was illegal because the vehicle has to pivot legally to gain its movement direction and then move.
If it is (b) then it moved illegally because you cannot change facing direction by moving, you can only change direction by pivoting.
So basically the move/pivot was illegal.
next we have the sideways moves, now the first sideways move was not a slight shift but a full inch to inch and a half movement to the left. So by this time Ed has gained a 1/4 inch forward movement and a full 1/1/2 sideways movement (to gain better LOS I might add).
Sideways movement is not allowed under the rules, to move to the side and end up facing the same way you started you would have to:
(a) Pivot to face left (usually with front armour)
(b) Move to the left whatever distance you require
(c) Pivot to face the direction your frontal AV started facing
This would take more than an inch to inch and a half of movement.
So Ed now makes his last move move but again he move the vehicle sideways. Now that was just the start of the dubious play. What I want to know is what would you have done if you were faced by the above?
I'm afraid if his total move was below 3" he's fine. A vehicle can pivot any number of times, so a sideways move is fine, re-check the rules but i saw nothing to say he couldn't move sideways... Suggest let it go, just for peace sake. I've had to over the 'let's nerf the mawloc' rule. (In fact rather than argue this I've pulled that army out of a £5 tourney.
You can make a "sideways" move if you like, it's just understood that the vehicle made a pivot in the direction you wanted to move it, moved it the amount you wanted to move it, then pivoted back into the exact same position it started in. If an opponent doesn't understand this, just explain it to them, but I've had opponents do this as well as I've done this numerous times before with no arguement.
World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7
The first part where he gained a 1/4 inch forward movement, it's a 1/4 inch, let it go. You can't realy be saying you've never moved anything and been off by a few mm.
As for his sideways movement, pivoting is considered free movement, he can pivot, move and pivot it again to point it in whatever direction he likes, if you move your vheicle sideways it's just assumed it turned, moved then turned again to face it's final position.I wouldn't have done anything.what would you have done if you were faced by the above?
like previously said.. i think most of us do sideway moves instead of pivoting, pivoting, pivoting... u have lot more chances that ur opponent move more then 1/4 inch if he pivots like 6 times.. then just moving sideway.. imo...anyway let it go unless ur a bit to competitive...anyway GL
If the RZ was flush with the table long edge, sideways on, the first pivot would put the rear end of the RZ off the table edge. Does'nt that mean its taken out of play ?
Jager bombs. Very efficient at wiping out friend or foe.
Technically, you cannot move sideways. Vehicle movement rules tell us to pivot while moving forwards and backwards. Many times the end result is the same, especially along open ground. Sometimes though, an obstruction would prevent a proper move, as per Riki's example. (When there are no obstacles present, I'm happy to allow sideways movement for expediency.)
Riki, your opponent can't actually be touching the edge. So he should have some room, no matter how minuscule, to pivot. He might have to do a series of tiny pivots and moves to get away from the edge, which could shave some of his movement, potentially.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
In my opinion, the moving/pivoting was legal. He moved a total of less than 6", and would still be allowed to fire. I do have to agree that he needed to have left room to the board edge to where when he pivoted he wasn't off the table. I think it's unrealistic, however, to expect other players to move their vehicles as if they were driving them.
He can move an individual model/unit as many times as he likes, as long as the net result is less than or equal to its maximum movement allowed. Granted, that gets really annoying if a player moves, undoes, moves, undoes, etc.
I have to agree with psichotykwyrm that 1/4 in may make or break a game, if he's trying to say that he didn't move his vehicle.
General Van Rensaler
Commander of the Cadian 713th
"The Sledgehammer of the Emperor"
I too would let it go - as long as you don't use pivots to get extra movement (like one of my group tries to), it doesn't matter for toffee how many they make, as long as the movement is less than 6/12/18/24" (delete as appropriate)
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Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
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