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Ok so with my Space Wolves I run Thunder Wolf Calvary and ithey are considered calvary I believe, so in a building would they be allowed to go to a second level? Or on a second level of a ruin or anything?
As I understand yes as long as I roll a dangerous terrian test and have enough inches to make it to the second floor AND as long as the base fits they are ok to do so... the dude I was playing against said they can't unless there is a ramp sinc@e calvary are usually horses and stuff but whatever... lol...
Some one please clairify this, cuz I did not seeing anything anywhere in the rule book that supports his case... thanks!!!
Technically, beasts, cavalry and regular bikes (not jetbikes) cannot go onto the upper levels of a ruin. It's on p.83 of the BRB.
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Yup, Thunderwolf Cavalry can't climb to upper levels of a ruin. They're stuck on the ground floor.
I say there is ambiguity.
Yes, I've seen p.83, which as part of the description includes how infantry move around in ruins.
Now, look at p.54, which describes movement for beasts and cavalry. The movement section is very, very short. In fact this is the entire description:
"Beasts and cavalry move like infantry"
There you go - both sides can make a case.
Ok Well so there is no way to get into close combat if they are on a upper level?
Come on there's gotta be something I can do if they get upstairs
Because "beasts and cavalry move like infantry" - you can argue that it applies to ALL movement. Movement through difficult terrain; movement through dangerous terrain; movement through ruins; movement through clear terrain; movement in ANY form.
Basically, yes, there is something you can do about this. I say you can get go up levels.
If someone says you can't, well the rules are not 100% either way - though you could most definitely make a very strong case. At the very least you should be able compromise with your opponent because of the ambiguity. If they insists on their way, and play the whole game taking advantage of that (like constantly moving up levels an then saying you can't), then don't play them because they are exploiting an ambiguous point in the game's rules.
I have a bike army. While I may not like it much, I don't think the ruins issue is ambiguous.
They give us a very specific list. If it only mattered that a unit "move like infantry" then some would not need to be listed, such as Walkers. Their entry says "move like infantry" also, yet they need to be listed.
They give us an exact list of unit types in those rules. They do not refer to models that "move like these unit types", but to specific unit types themselves.
Think for a moment. What would happen if you let cavalry move up in a ruin? That 12" assault will mean that mounted units can Ninja Jump up and down ruins like they're nothing. They wouldn't risk dangerous terrain either, like jump infantry and jetbikes. Those units are risking for the privilege to fly up and down levels.
Furthermore, the part that specifically lists infantry, monsters, and walkers? It references "models on foot". You could argue that's fluff, but it certainly gives you a good idea where they're going with it.
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There is no Ambiguity. Page 83 specifically lists which units may move onto the upper levels of ruins in the first paragraph, and Beasts & Cav aren't in it. (that list being Infantry, Jump Infantry, Walkers, Monstrous Creatures, Jetbikes). Bottom line, if your Thunderwolves want to get up there, they're going to have to find some stairs.
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See after reading the rules that say "they move like infantry" I noticed that neither bikes say that or does and thing else... so if they move like infantry having to roll difficult terrian and. Stuff they why wouldn't they be able too?
Ya they gotta be able to get up there!
Nada, they are classified as 'Beasts' and beasts are not one of the units permitted to move up in ruins. The rules are very, very clear on this. Raveners, warp beasts, fiends, Khorne Hounds, Fenrisian Wolves, etc can't do it either.
Rules and fluff almost never coincide.
If you're 100% relying on thunder wolves to go up in buildings, you're doing something wrong anyway.