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  1. #1
    Member Zollars's Avatar
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    A little help on the rules

    Hello there.
    I recently played an Eldar player. now, to put things short, he talked about all these weird rules i sure wasnt in the rulebook, but went along with anyway, since he looked like he knew what he was talking about. But after reading the rulebook again, i found that he was either:
    a) He was lying or cheating. Dont know which
    b) His mind was stuck in the 4th Ed rulebook which i know not much about or
    c) He was playing by some special rules i didnt know about, or was special to the eldar codex.

    A few of the rules included:

    1. When you go to ground, the next turn (not the end of the turn) you take a leadership test and can move up to D3
    2. He reckoned that you have to move over 12" to be hit on a 6 with a vehicle. I know this isnt true, as if you move at crusing speed you get hit on 6's (that cost my friend his hammerhead)
    3. He didnt even seem to know that you could assault multiple units
    4. He was adamant that wraithcannon/dcannon roll of 6's "removed my necrons from play" and they couldnt get their WBB's
    5. That his support Dcannons werent artillery (which i am sure they am, but might be wrong) and that they shared the T of the unit
    6. That scarabs couldnt go to ground (that really worried me)
    I was only just able to argue that scarabs had a 2+ save when they turbo boosted. If i had kept my mouth shut though i might not have gotten my way.

    Dont get me wrong, he was a good player. It was a exciting game, but i dont know if he was exactly 100% on the rulebook (or the other way around)

    Any help would be appreciate

    Last edited by Zollars; January 16th, 2011 at 11:06.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Duo_Sonata's Avatar
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    1. No...just no
    2. You are correct, once moving at cruising speed you need 6's to be hit
    3. You'd be surprised how many people realise this
    4. They cause "instant death" not "removed from play" so they would still gain WBB so long as theres a res orb around
    5. D cannons are artillery for eldar and as such follow the rules for such, he may have confused himself with weapon platforms found in guardian squads however they don't share T
    6. Scarabs move as if they are jetbikes. Bikes can go to ground. Fluff wise scarabs move by burrowing through the ground, seems to me that going to ground for them would make them invisible but thats just me

    So yeah definite errors there so either A. or D. he's new
    Warhammer 40k: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, Grey Knights, Space Lizards (wolves), Kroot, Witch Hunters, Dark Eldar
    Warhammer: Lizardmen, Empire, Vampire Counts, Brettonians, High Elves, Skaven

  4. #3
    Senior Member SkyDog's Avatar
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    1. When you go to ground, the next turn (not the end of the turn) you take a leadership test and can move up to D3
    No, that's just made up. If he's claiming a DE special rule just ask him to show you the rule. None of us can be experts on every codex, if you're using somthing your opponant doesn't know about you're ment to show them.
    2. He reckoned that you have to move over 12" to be hit on a 6 with a vehicle. I know this isnt true, as if you move at crusing speed you get hit on 6's
    You're right, that's a load of crap, he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he's trying to cheat.
    3. He didnt even seem to know that you could assault multiple units
    If you launched a multiple assault and he didn't know about it just show him the rule in the BRB.
    4. He was adamant that wraithcannon/dcannon roll of 6's "removed my necrons from play" and they couldnt get their WBB's
    Can't help with that one, I don't know enough about them to say. But what I said above still counts, if you're trying to use a special rule your opponant doesn't know about you're ment to show them. If he can't or won't show this then he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he's trying to cheat.
    5. That his support Dcannons werent artillery (which i am sure they am, but might be wrong) and that they shared the T of the unit
    Again, just ask him to show you their unit entry, if they're artillary it'll say so.
    6. That scarabs couldnt go to ground (that really worried me)
    Hmm? I've never played a necron player that tryed to send his scrabs to ground so I don't know.

    Most of these problems can be solved by just asking him to show you the rule, if he can't or won't then somthing's wrong.
    In the 41st millenium there is no such thing as paranoia, the universe realy is out to get you!

  5. #4
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    Zollars:

    Q1: Nope, no such rule.

    Q2: You're correct. Refer him to P.57 BRB third bullet point of "Vehicles and Movement" and also to P.63 BRB under "Rolling to hit against vehicles, last entry in the table.

    Q3: Show him pages 34 and 41.

    Q4: D-Cannons and Wraithcannons only cause "Instant Death" (*only* - !!!!). As neither of them have a Strength value (both have "X" in that column) they cannot be double toughness weapons, and therefore allow the WBB roll to be applied normally despite the weapons' AP value.

    Q5: Your opponent needs to read the entry for the Support Weapons in the Codex, in particular the "Unit Type". This states that Support Weapon Batteries are Artillery, which then requires him to read P.55 BRB, mainly the section headed "Shooting".

    Q6: No reason why Scarabs couldn't go to ground.

    SkyDog's suggestion about getting your opponent to show you where it "says in the codex/rulebook" is one of the best ways of teaching someone the error of their ways, but in a friendly fashion.

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  6. #5
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    It is worth noting that while scarabs move as jetbikes they are still infantry - this is a very subtle, but important, difference.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Archon Charybdis's Avatar
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    One or two of those could be honest mistakes, but the whole slew together paint a pattern of somebody who's either astoundingly ignorant of the rules, or actively trying to cheat you. Next time you see this guy you should tell him that a few of the things from your previous game didn't seem correct to you. Explain what was done wrong and what you found, and see how he reacts. As long as you do it courteously, you should be able to tell from his reaction whether he was honestly mistaken or trying to cheat.

  8. #7
    Member Zollars's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies everyone! I will be sure to tell him these few things next time i see him.

  9. #8
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    About the Support platform, I assume that the Eldar codex, even though it's older than the rule book, supersedes the rule book, as the Eldar platforms can actually move and shoot in the same turn.

    Am I right in this:

    1) The weapon can only be removed from the unit if the two crewmen are dead, it's just a marker and therefore don't have an Armour Rating of 10.

    2) As the support weapon is artillery, the Guardian unit cannot launch an Assault.

    3) It's only possible for the Guardian unit to launch an Assault when the two crewmen, and thereby the support weapon, are gone.

  10. #9
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    Q1: Yes, you're right. Either of the weapon team can fire the gun on the platform, so until both are gone it remains operational.
    Q2: The weapon is not a Support weapon, it's a Guardian Heavy Weapon Platform. It isn't artillery, it's the same idea as a Marine carrying a meltagun or similar. On P.39 Codex Eldar we're told it is an assault weapon in all respects, so assaults are not denied to the Guardian unit.
    Q3: See answer #2. Also, the two Guardian crewmen are upgraded from the parent Guardian unit so they will assault too when the unit assaults.

    Hope that helps.

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  11. #10
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    So if it's an Assault weapon in all respects, what effect does it have that on page 45 it says that the Guardian Support Weapons are artillery?

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