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    Blast markers and weapon mounting points

    hello all...again

    My gaming group played a game last night that involved the eldar. There seem to be a few points/rules that seemed to created a heated debate. lol

    One involves how vehicle weapons are mounted in the eldar codex. When determining firing angles the rule book uses : turret-360 degrees, hull-45 degrees, sponson-90 or 180 degrees and pintle- 45 or 360 degrees (i think). The eldar codex is the only codex we have looked at that does not state how vehicle weapons are mounted. Eldar player claims his shuriken catapult/cannon weapons underneath can shoot 360 degrees cause they can physically spin like that. Is this true?

    Second question involves blast templates. Rules state that if center is not over hull hit is half strength. Fair enough. We figured because on most (to the groups knowledge) vehicles if the centre is not over the hull, less than( or equal to) 50% of the blast template isn't over the vehicle(half blast, half strength,made sense to us). Eldar vehicles have a neat cresent shaped cutout in the front. Blast marker(5") found itself just off the hull in this gap, yet well over 50%( closer to 75%) of blast was over the hull. Is this half strength as well? Daemon player said full S, Eldar argued half, Me, i got tired of the argument and suggested roll off and that i would ask for the wisdom of LO. lol

    Thanks to all in advance and from previous who take the time to help settle our arguments.


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  3. #2
    Member Hockeyman506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyr_82 View Post
    hello all...again

    My gaming group played a game last night that involved the eldar. There seem to be a few points/rules that seemed to created a heated debate. lol

    One involves how vehicle weapons are mounted in the eldar codex. When determining firing angles the rule book uses : turret-360 degrees, hull-45 degrees, sponson-90 or 180 degrees and pintle- 45 or 360 degrees (i think). The eldar codex is the only codex we have looked at that does not state how vehicle weapons are mounted. Eldar player claims his shuriken catapult/cannon weapons underneath can shoot 360 degrees cause they can physically spin like that. Is this true?
    The turret mounted guns yes. The undercarriage mounted ones are only 45 degree arc.

    Second question involves blast templates. Rules state that if center is not over hull hit is half strength. Fair enough. We figured because on most (to the groups knowledge) vehicles if the centre is not over the hull, less than( or equal to) 50% of the blast template isn't over the vehicle(half blast, half strength,made sense to us). Eldar vehicles have a neat cresent shaped cutout in the front. Blast marker(5") found itself just off the hull in this gap, yet well over 50%( closer to 75%) of blast was over the hull. Is this half strength as well? Daemon player said full S, Eldar argued half, Me, i got tired of the argument and suggested roll off and that i would ask for the wisdom of LO. lol
    Half strength. Percentage of the marker covering the hull doesn't matter, it entirely depends on where the hull is located. Eldar vehicles are annoying like that, though most of them are pretty easy to kill to make up for it.

  4. #3
    Senior Member SkyDog's Avatar
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    The eldar codex is the only codex we have looked at that does not state how vehicle weapons are mounted.
    If the codex doesn't say then it's down to the model. If the weapon is mounted on the hull with no swivel then 45 degrees.

    If the weapon is pintle or turret mounted then it can rotate upto 360 degrees unless limited by the design of the tank.

    Basicly, if the weapon looks like it can turn in that direction (even if it's glued in place and can't move) than it can turn in that direction.
    Eldar vehicles have a neat cresent shaped cutout in the front. Blast marker(5") found itself just off the hull in this gap,
    Strict RAW: It's not over the hull, half S.

    RAI....? That's a bit cheesy, that hole is just a fluffy design thing. For all game purposes you measure from the edge of the hull, any spikes, dozer blades, trophie racks or gun barrels extending from the hull are ignored for measureing purposes. If 'fluffy' things sticking out from the hull are ignored then I think 'fluffy' things in the centre of the hull should be to.

    RAW is on the Eldar players side I guess, if he wanted to play it that way.... Eh. But I wouldn't and I'd call you a cheese hunter if you did.
    In the 41st millenium there is no such thing as paranoia, the universe realy is out to get you!

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    In my experience it's always best to have someone filling a GM role before any game. Just for impartial rulings whenever disagreements come up. It saves a lot of bad feeling sometimes. Human nature I guess.

    If you haven't got a GM - then "roll off" to decide any conflict in opinion.

    Either way, everyone's happy in the end.


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  6. #5
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    Actually there's an answer to this in the BRB FAQ. The generic rules in the rulebook are there as a guide, but you have also to take a literal look at your model. If there is some area of the model which physically blocks LOS for a weapon mount, then the gun *cannot* fire in that direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulebook FAQ
    If the structure the gun is pintle-mounted on is obviously capable of rotating 360º, like in the case of a Rhino’s cupola, then it should be treated as having a 360º arc of fire. However, if you mount the same storm bolter on a Razorback, even though it still can rotate 360º, it won’t obviously be able to fire through the Razorback’s main turret, and so it will have a ‘blind spot’. In the same way, the shuriken catapult mounted under the hull of a Wave Serpent, Falcon, etc. looks like it can rotate 360º, but it does not look like it can be fired through the main hull right behind it, so we normally play that it can be fired roughly in the 180º to the vehicle’s front, which seems like an acceptable compromise.
    As for the blast marker question: it's quite simple. The entire hole at the centre of the marker has to be entirely over the model for the hit to count as full strength. It's irrelevant as to how much of the marker itself covers the vehicle, as the diameter of the marker is only representing the area of shrapnel/effect caused by the point of impact in the dead centre.

    E.
    Last edited by eiglepulper; March 11th, 2011 at 12:47.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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    Thanks for the replies all. eiglepulper's reply about it only having a 180 degree arc to the front sounds like it makes the most sense to me. Thanks for that FAQ answer. Cheers. But for the blast marker, if it was my game i would have to agree with skydog. I thought he was a cheesehunter as well. lol. So the consensus is that if the blast marker scatters between the rear booms of my vendetta, its only a half strength hit? I call that cheese. And I think my opponent would as well. lol

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    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    That's the way the cookie crumbles! Don't forget that the rule for the blast markers was introduced when bar Falcons/Wave Serpents there weren't any regularly appearing vehicles which didn't consist of 4-square slabs of plastic. Now we have Vendettas/Valkyries and Storm Ravens already here and lord knows what else coming in the future.

    E.
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  9. #8
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    As for the blast marker question: it's quite simple. The entire hole at the centre of the marker has to be entirely over the model for the hit to count as full strength. It's irrelevant as to how much of the marker itself covers the vehicle, as the diameter of the marker is only representing the area of shrapnel/effect caused by the point of impact in the dead centre.

    E.
    Hi mate,
    "The centre of the blast marker ends up over the vehicles hull," page 60 BRB.

    The way that I play this is to include the vehicles base as part of its hull when looking down, much like when assaulting Skimmers - both the hull and the base are valid as both occupy area on the table.
    Last edited by Wicky; March 14th, 2011 at 03:33.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

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