Bladevanes cover saves - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    Bladevanes cover saves

    The DE bladesvanes entry says it allows cover saves as normal, but what does normal mean for this situation?

    Recently an opponent tried to argue that it meant that if his unit would have recieved a cover save from a shooting attack that came from where the reavers started, then he would get a cover save from bladevanes.

    I am of the opinion that it would function more like a barrage in that you would only really get a cover save form area terrain that you are standing in. (in this case there was a rock pile between my reavers and his squad but it was a good 6-8" away from his men)

    Has anyone else had this come up? How would you deal with it?

    (I ended up just giving it to him since I was bladevaning an IG SWS with 9 reavers)

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  3. #2
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    Personally, it seems that the attack happens at the point of contact. I would allow area terrain, and perhaps if +50% were standing up against a wall or other feature (ducking behind it to avoid the blades).
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    It means if you are in cover and the cover save is better than your armour save then you can use it.

  5. #4
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs_n_Orks View Post
    The DE bladesvanes entry says it allows cover saves as normal, but what does normal mean for this situation?

    Recently an opponent tried to argue that it meant that if his unit would have recieved a cover save from a shooting attack that came from where the reavers started, then he would get a cover save from bladevanes.

    I am of the opinion that it would function more like a barrage in that you would only really get a cover save form area terrain that you are standing in. (in this case there was a rock pile between my reavers and his squad but it was a good 6-8" away from his men)

    Has anyone else had this come up? How would you deal with it?

    (I ended up just giving it to him since I was bladevaning an IG SWS with 9 reavers)
    Bladevanes are a movement based attack that pays no heed to its origin for damage caused other than it must be at least 18" in travel.

    There is no 'point of contact' needed with a described line (the only points being the start and the end of that line) and I agree with Mr Shadow, if the unit affected is 'in' cover then use those rules for it.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Wicky; March 23rd, 2011 at 03:00.
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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Wicky, you're not required to move at least 18" when Turbo-Boosting. That's only a requirement to claim the 3+ cover save.

    I think the minimum move requirement was something from 4e.
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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psichotykwyrm View Post
    Wicky, you're not required to move at least 18" when Turbo-Boosting. That's only a requirement to claim the 3+ cover save.

    I think the minimum move requirement was something from 4e.
    Um, quite right mate, I stand corrected!

    Thanks.
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  8. #7
    jy2
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    You cannot use the rules for barrage as it does not say for you to do so.

    My intepretation is that if the unit is behind cover (terrain or another unit) when the reavers fly past them - going over the cover in the process - then you get cover. If you are in area terrain, then you always get cover from the bladevanes.
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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    You cannot use the rules for barrage as it does not say for you to do so.
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    My intepretation is that if the unit is behind cover (terrain or another unit) when the reavers fly past them - going over the cover in the process - then you get cover.
    Why would you allow this as interviening cover can not block the movement? And it is a movement attack, not a shooting attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    If you are in area terrain, then you always get cover from the bladevanes.
    Again agreed.
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    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    You cannot use the rules for barrage as it does not say for you to do so.
    Perhaps I was unclear. I'm not saying I think the barrage rules should actually be used, I'm saying I think that determining cover saves in this situation should be done in a manner similar to how it is done for barrage weapons (ie: you only get a cover save if you are in area terrain, or if you have some kind of wargear/rule that gives you one).
    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    My interpretation is that if the unit is behind cover (terrain or another unit) when the reavers fly past them - going over the cover in the process - then you get cover.
    Where are the rules that say you may do this? All of the rules for determining if a model gets a cover save are in reference to "the point of view of the firer" (with the one exception being if the target is in area terrain), and since no models are firing weapons in this case (in fact since they are boosting they are expressly forbidden from firing), how do you determine the "firer's" point of view?

    And if you claim that using bladevanes is analogous to firing a weapon another problem arises. The damage from bladevanes happens after the unit has moved.
    Once the move is complete the unit inflicts D* S* AP* hits on one unengaged, non-vehicle unit...
    So since the hits are not inflicted until after the unit has reached its new position shouldn't you check "the point of view of the firer" from there? (Which certainly doesn't seem right at all)

    At least that's how I see it.
    The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed

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