Shrike and Spliting his squad

[Tepogue]

On another board, someone posted that they per the SM FAQ, they are going to attach Shrike and another SM character to a 10 man SM TH/SS squad. Then they will then split the term squad into combat squads, creating 1 5 man THSS w/Shrike and another 5 man squad with the other SM character(librarian I think)

I'm arguing this is not legal, because Shrike gives the squad he is in infiltration, combat squads are treated as 2 separate squads, so since Shrkei is not physically in the 2nd squad, that 2nd second squad cannot infiltrate.

He is arguing that the line in the combat squads section about "from this point forward" is what allows him to take a single squad, which has infiltrate when they are all 1 squad, then he can separate them into combat squads and infiltrate in 2 separate places.

I did various Google searches looking for various Shrike lists and seeing if I could find any commentary and only found a couple of links that indicated affirmed my opinion that the answer is no, you cannot separate Shrikes squad into combat squads and infiltrate them separately.

[psichotykwyrm]

Check the last round of FAQs.

They confirm what some of us already knew, that you may combat squad when infiltrating.

Also, if you are gonna try to argue some order of operations nonsense when attaching Shrike, check the main rulebook FAQ. The very first thing you do when it is your turn to deploy is determine which ICs go to which squads, if attaching any. (Even those squads you intend to reserve.)

[chen97]

On another board, someone posted that they per the SM FAQ, they are going to attach Shrike and another SM character to a 10 man SM TH/SS squad. Then they will then split the term squad into combat squads, creating 1 5 man THSS w/Shrike and another 5 man squad with the other SM character(librarian I think)

I'm arguing this is not legal, because Shrike gives the squad he is in infiltration, combat squads are treated as 2 separate squads, so since Shrkei is not physically in the 2nd squad, that 2nd second squad cannot infiltrate.

He is arguing that the line in the combat squads section about "from this point forward" is what allows him to take a single squad, which has infiltrate when they are all 1 squad, then he can separate them into combat squads and infiltrate in 2 separate places.

I did various Google searches looking for various Shrike lists and seeing if I could find any commentary and only found a couple of links that indicated affirmed my opinion that the answer is no, you cannot separate Shrikes squad into combat squads and infiltrate them separately.

Agree, as said in the rulebook, a IC can only grant his rules to that particular squad that he is in and since the other squad has combat squadded and is with another IC, then it is a no as well.

[eiglepulper]

Q: When Infiltrating a unit of 10 Space Marines with the Infiltrate special rule, can both Combat Squads be deployed in different locations? In addition, does this still only count as a single deployment? (p51)
A: Yes to both questions.

The FAQ states that this unit already has Infiltrate as part of its special rules. This is very different to having a unit *gain* Infiltrate because of a Special Character's ability to give them the special rule. The Character can only affect the unit he is with, so if the unit he joins subsequently Combat Squads, it becomes two separate units so only the unit which the Character remains with can gain/benefit from the Special Ability.

In other words, your friend was wrong and you were right.

E.

[psichotykwyrm]

Q: If an Independent Character is going to begin a
game joined to a unit when should this be done? (p48.)
A: You should nominate which Independent Characters
are joining units at the start of deployment before you
place any units on the board. Note that this should be
done before you nominate which units are being held
in Reserve, Deep Strike or are Outflanking etc.

Therefore, the squad that Shrike is attached to gains the rule before they are ever placed upon the table. They are with Shrike when you are deploying them via Infiltrate. They may combat squad as normal from there.

Whether they had Infiltrate in its entry or "gains" it does not change the fact that they are a unit with the rule when you begin to place them on the table.

[eiglepulper]

So basically the original 10-man squad retains the infiltrate ability from Shrike, and deploys in two separate squads with Shrike attached to one of them until the actual start of the Movement Phase when the Combat Squads rule takes over and they become independent units for the remainder of the game?

E.

[psichotykwyrm]

until the actual start of the Movement Phase when the Combat Squads rule takes over and they become independent units for the remainder of the game?

Where are you getting any rules that state or even imply an interaction between Combat Squads and the start of the Movement Phase?

Combat Squads, as per its own rules text, is utilized when the unit is deployed.


It goes exactly like this:
1. Shrike is attached to a ten-man squad before any units are deployed on the board.
2. Shrike's unit may now Infiltrate.
3. When Infiltrating (deploying on the table), you may utilize the Combat Squads rule.

You don't get to say that half the squad is still "Shrike's Squad" while the other half is no longer. They were all "Shrike's Squad" when they Infiltrate, and are still entitled to Combat Squad.

There is no "Infiltrated state", it is only a special means by which to deploy. You can't retroactively deny them a rule that they already used. "Shrike's Squad" gets to deploy via Infiltrate, and may utilize all associated rules such as Combat Squads, because there is no part of the rule that states this works any differently than any other unit using the same rule.

[Tepogue]

Thank you Chen97. Your reply is how I read and understand the rules. As soon as the squad splits the rules for the independant character only apply to the squad he is with.

[psichotykwyrm]

That would be true Tepogue, except that you are already well past the point where the IC's rule was utilized.

The use of Combat Squads is an action that one squad enacted to become two. They use Combat Squads at the same time they are infiltrating.

Please, someone explain how a unit with Infiltrate is not allowed to do so if they somehow lose the ability to do so AFTER they have already deployed via Infiltrate. I've shown the interaction of Infiltrate and Combat Squads as it pertains to the FAQs, now I would like to see some rules to back up any statement to the contrary.

[eiglepulper]

I am now more than happy to go along with what you have explained, PW. I see where I was making my error. Have some rep. (Well, once I'm able to give it to you!)

E.