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  1. #1
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    I understand that in editions of the rules prior to the current one, bringins special characters in your army list required your opponent's permission. In 4th ed, though, special characters are not restricted in this way.

    The other day, a friend and I played a game, Space Marines vs. Tau. We jointly own a Tau army, and were borrowing the LGS owner's marines to test out a list we're considering purchasing. Chief Librarian Tigurius is the HQ choice that we wanted to use.
    He doesn't appear seriously undercosted--165 points for a librarian who's only special rules are having two powers and double range on powers (which only affects one of those powers) almost seemed too expensive. But, he's particularly cool, we both like Ultramarines, and so we figured we'd give him a shot.

    By the third or fourth round, things were looking grim for the Space marines. Then Tigurius finally got close enough to start effecting the battle, and the game shifted dramatically. With fear of darkness consistently forcing the vast majority of the Tau army (that 24" radius is enormous) to fall back every round, the Tau were hardpressed to accomplish anything useful. While the entirety of the rest of the space marine army killed about 500 points worth of Tau, Tigirius, by himself, forced more than this off the board, effectively killing them, simply by making them fall back every round, which kept most of them from really ever doing anything useful.

    By the end, we had to call it a draw. Two Shas'o crsis suits and one stealth suit survived for the Tau, while the Space Marines had an immobile Land Raider, an immobile predator, and Tigurius (with one wound left)--no scoring units on the board at all.
    The owner of the store took this opportunity to inform us that we shouldn't play with special characters, as they obviously unbalance the game, but we're not so sure. I mean, yes: Tigurius did manage to kill over a third of the Tau army by himself, but shouldn't even special characters be ballanced by GW's supposedly intense playtesting regimine?

    I guess the question is, do you feel that Special Characters are generally overpowered and should be avoided in either friendly or formal games, despite the fact that they no longer require an opponent's permission to bring?

    Should we not plan to include Tigurius in our list? Would it be 'unsportsmanlike' if we were to go ahead and play with him regularly?


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  3. #2
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    Hmm, I wouldn't think that Games Workshop would unbalance anything that badly :blink:. Perhaps the Tau should have done something to him before he got to within 24"? How big was the table, anyway?

    I don't really know, as I've never played special characters, it just sounds like you used him in a very skillful way, and your opponent didn't know how to counter it :lol:. I guess he shouldn't have had so many units bunched together?

  4. #3
    Senior Member Brother Marius's Avatar
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    The way I see it going, special characters are getting grossly overpriced for what they do as a trade off for being used whenever you please. Have you looked at some of the characters in the new marine codex? Cassius is a joke and so is Lysander. Both are proced equivalantly to Shrike and Tigurus. Personally, I usually let special characters in since they tend not to dominate a game, especially if both armies have them.
    The enemies of the Emperor fear many things. They fear discovery, defeat, despair and death. Yet there is one thing they fear above all others. They fear the wrath of the Space Marines!

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    Originally posted by Kalzakath@Dec 12 2004, 21:42
    Hmm, I wouldn't think that Games Workshop would unbalance anything that badly :blink:. Perhaps the Tau should have done something to him before he got to within 24"? How big was the table, anyway?

    I don't really know, as I've never played special characters, it just sounds like you used him in a very skillful way, and your opponent didn't know how to counter it :lol:. I guess he shouldn't have had so many units bunched together?
    [snapback]273838[/snapback]
    Basically his status as a special character makes him immune to enemy fire, and it doesn't really take any skill at all to keep him that way. He either hid behind an assault squad, a rhino, or a tac squad till he was in. The tau player's units were a bit bunched up, but basically it wouldn't have mattered. A 24" radius circle is a very significant portion of a 4X4 board, about 1/5 or 1/6 of it.

    To be fair, the Tau had one turn where he could have been shot at, with a hammerhead rail gun, but it seemed more important at the time to shoot at an annihilator predator that was trading fire with the hammerhead. (Understand that our hammerheads, regardless of the fact that they should hit 2/3 three shots, are actually doing above average if they hit 1/3 shots, so killing the SM's primary tank hunter seemed important at the time).

    Anyway, he did have a large effect and it wasn't a particularly avoidable one.


    I tend to agree, Marius, that the special characters seem overpriced. However, in this instance, Tigurius well more than made up for his point cost, and it wasn't even an instance that will be uncommon in games against tau. Basically, it will happen every time, about the same way.
    My gut reaction is that it is silly to say that it is impolite not to play with something that GW has undoubtedly tested, and I am glad that you agree with me on that. Still, it seems something worth getting more opinions on.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot Kirasu's Avatar
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    Most special characters are very fair. It's not impolite as they *Are* in the rules. If you make your army to make your opponent happy you'll most likely make yourself unhappy.

    However, I feel GW went out of their way to make Tigurius way too powerful and thats one of the only characters I feel that about. Since he chooses his powers before the game starts you can always pick 2 powers which will be best against your opponent (directly going against army construction which happens before you face an opponent and pick a mission usually). Double range is absurd imo as the most psychic race(eldar) can only do that with Uthwe and need warlocks. especially given the new SM powers i just feel GW didn't playtest a lot of this stuff much

    True, its not great against some armies. That doesnt justify it being game winning vs the other half.

    ALso, you should NOT have been playing a 1500pt game on a 4x4 table. Minimum size for that is 6x4, unless of course you dont have the space. If you have the space tho you really should play on 6x4

  7. #6
    Son of LO Uzi-99's Avatar
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    Four Words that should be enough:

    Tigurius with Drop Pods.

    Some armies will be seriously effected by this combination... Luckily, my Tyranids (if within Synapse) will only see silly "Tasty-Flesh-In-Hard-Shell-Prey" who is stupid enough to appear in the middle of the swarm. :lol:

    If errors exist, please point them out... I'm still not that knowledgeable about the new SM Codex.
    "The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."

  8. #7
    Senior Member Brother Marius's Avatar
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    You're right uzi, but god help your swarm if the marine player is intelligent enough to take out synapse creatures. Imagaine everyone within a 24" bubble of tigurus taking a morale check at -2. I don't really think he is overpowering since he can only be taken by one marine army, and one that actually a lot of people don't play. This is one reason I don't think most characters (at least the marine ones) are too powerful, since they can only be taken by one specific chapter. There are no longer characters that can be taken by anybody (like the emperor's champion, which I am still mad about losing.)
    The enemies of the Emperor fear many things. They fear discovery, defeat, despair and death. Yet there is one thing they fear above all others. They fear the wrath of the Space Marines!

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    Marine Psykers are very powerful now. But not against alot of armies. For example, yes tau are seriously affected by fear of the darkness, but most armies arent too worried about it. For example, chaos is either fearless or will get to re-eroll the leadership tests. Orks have the mob check, tyranids are synapse, marines will just regroup the next turn, daemonhunters are fearless, plus they all have psychic hoods. Although armies such as dark eldar, eldar, necrons (but not so much), and the imperial guard will most likely fall to it. But their are ways to prevent it, unless it is with tigerius it is only 12". Even with tigerius, it doesnt affect vehicles, or fearless units, take advantage of that. Cause he cant use it in close combat either. Tigerius also sucks in close combat. Park a transport next to him, tigerius cant hurt a vehicle, next turn jump out and assault him. although i agree he is a formidible foe.

  10. #9
    LO Zealot MobiusPrime's Avatar
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    24" Radius!? I hope you mean diameter. Radius is a measurement from the center of a circle to any point on the circumference, diameter is a straight measurement of one point in the circumference to another point, while passing through the center of the circle. If Tigurius has a radius of 24" then he has a total circle area of roughly 1809 sq inches!!! (pie x radius squared = area of circle)

  11. #10
    Son of LO Uzi-99's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MobiusPrime@Dec 13 2004, 20:16
    24" Radius!? I hope you mean diameter.
    --- Nope, it's radius: The normal range is 12" from model (center) to target (point on circumference). Tigurius doubles this to 24" from model to target...


    Brother Marius:

    Yeah, if the SM can take out my Synapse...

    IIRC Drop Pods are pretty much as random as Deep Strike usually is?

    Even if it isn't, we need to bear in mind that Tyranids do have a pretty good Ld, even the Gaunts since most often they have Hive Nodes (for now, at least). And even if they fail, they don't simply fall back, but roll on the Instinctive Behaviour rable which can result in them attacking the SM all the more ferociously!

    Thus as a Tyranid player, I'm not that worried.
    "The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."

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