Blast weapon affecting peoples not under the blast - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Blast weapon affecting peoples not under the blast

    We had a disagreement yesterday regarding the blast weapon. For the sake of the example. I drop 4 blasts on a unit of 10 models and hit 6 of them with each blast. I had 4 direct hits so it is always the same 6 models that were hit. He has to save 24 wounds.

    1- My interpretation is that he does is save starting from the closest model of my unit even if not part of the blast weapon. Also according to me if he fail 10 saves, the unit is wiped out.

    2- According to him we roll the saves from the closest unit that was in one of the blast area. Since only 6 models were ever under the blast template, only them can die and the other wounds are lost. This mean that you have to put your blast strategically to inflict maximum wounds and also cover as many different models as possible.

    This questions is the same with barrage as the first unit to die is from the center of the explosion, but can multiple barrages kill units not under the blast template?

    I cannot find a direct explanation regarding that. All Iknow is that miniwargaming does it my way.


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    Finding an answer for this involves a bit of bouncing around within the rulebook.

    The basic order of things is this:

    -> Select A Weapon (p30)
    -> Check Range/LOS (p31)
    -> Roll to Hit (p32)
    -> Blast Weapon (p158 )
    - Scatter(p12)
    - Determine Hits
    -> Roll To Wound (p 34)
    -> Establish Wound Pool (p34)
    ->Allocate Wounds (p35)
    -> Take Saves and Remove Casualties (p36)

    However, p37 has a box that is relevant: Fast Dice - saying that it's quicker to makes saves before allocating wounds, and then allocate the unsaved wounds starting with the closest enemy model.

    Using your example above, the following would occur:

    Identify number of models Hit (24)
    Roll To Wound (let's say a miracle occurs and all 24 hits Wound)
    Roll Saves (let's say half Save - so 12 Unsaved Wounds)
    12 Unsaved Wounds are then allocated to the unit, beginning with the closest model (which can be out of LoS)

    Relevant Quotes:
    Blast (p158 )
    "...Once the number of hits inflicted on the unit has been worked out, roll To Wounds and save as normal. Remember that any Wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule must be allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out of sight of any models from the attacking unit."

    Multiple Blasts (Blast, p 158 )
    "If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Blast special rule, scatter each shot, one at a time, as described above and determine how many hits are scored with each individual blast marker. After the last shot, add up the total number of hits scored and roll all of the To Wound rolls as normal."
    Last edited by Exarch_Thomo; February 14th, 2017 at 05:58.

  4. #3
    Zeb
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    I'd like to have other poeple's imput on this ... it doesnt seems right to me ( were 3 guys playing together, including OP, all 3 of us must have about 5 games worth of WH40k experiences )

    From how we ruled it :

    "any Wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule must be allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out of sight of any models from the attacking unit."

    means you can hit poeple with a blast that arent in LOS ... not that you can wipe a whole unit even if you target a fraction of 'em ... 2 blast, each blast hitting the SAME 5 marines, can kill those 5 marines, not the whole squad ...


    Extending this logics would mean if you shoot a unit with Grav gun, and score 15 hits on a single model (the others being safely hidden out of LoS ) the whole units of 10 marines falls dead, because 1 of them was hit ? that would means having a horde army, like orcs or tyrranid, would be impossible to play vs anyone with a flamer or a template weapon because you can vaporise whole squads despite spreading them around ...

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    Thanks a lot for the help Exarch_Thomo it really clarified it for me.



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    Exarch is spot on. The blast template gets round the line of sight rule. Think of it in terms of a pistol and a grenade. You can;t see the guy on the other side of the wall to shoot him with a pistol. you can however lob a grenade over...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingzerno View Post
    Exarch is spot on. The blast template gets round the line of sight rule. Think of it in terms of a pistol and a grenade. You can;t see the guy on the other side of the wall to shoot him with a pistol. you can however lob a grenade over...
    LOS was never the issue.

    the issue is me sending 3 grenades on a single guy ... and 3 different random guys who are not close to the grenade blast ending up dieing, while the guy caught in middle of the 3 explosions ending up untouched.

    this logical rules is already applied to flamers and stomp ... but it seems blasts are ruled weirdly.

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    You're trying to apply logic to 40k - you'll give yourself an aneurism if you keep going down that path

    Blast and Template are two different rules. Blast works the way it does because that's what the rules specifically say.

    Think of it is shrapnel scything out through a unit that is in movement, if you will, rather than people standing statically. Or the grenade deflecting off the initial target before exploding. Or whatever. Rules wise - think of it as similar to Template weapons being used against units in a building. Say you had a bunker that you could remove the top on, and had a squad placed in side to cover the firing slits. A model with a template weapon fires it at the unit in the bunker. If you removed the top and placed the template down, you might only cover two models. Instead, the rules dictate that it hits D6 models, randomly allocated, none of which might have been the actual models in the direct line of fire.

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    Zeb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch_Thomo View Post
    You're trying to apply logic to 40k - you'll give yourself an aneurism if you keep going down that path

    Blast and Template are two different rules. Blast works the way it does because that's what the rules specifically say.

    Think of it is shrapnel scything out through a unit that is in movement, if you will, rather than people standing statically. Or the grenade deflecting off the initial target before exploding. Or whatever. Rules wise - think of it as similar to Template weapons being used against units in a building. Say you had a bunker that you could remove the top on, and had a squad placed in side to cover the firing slits. A model with a template weapon fires it at the unit in the bunker. If you removed the top and placed the template down, you might only cover two models. Instead, the rules dictate that it hits D6 models, randomly allocated, none of which might have been the actual models in the direct line of fire.
    thanks, that does help seeing it in a new way. as long as the rules have a little bit of common sense, it's easy to grasp and follow.

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