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Opinions On Stable Platforms + Rf

748 views 13 replies 9 participants last post by  The Mad Hatter 
#1 ·
First off i'd like to say I know the rules and how they work. What exactly Im looking for are IN PRINT reasons why anything can fire a rapid fire weapon + assault

As it stands in the 4th edition rulebook nothing in the game can rapid fire + assault as "stable platform" only affects heavy weapons (If you disagree read pages 29)

Am I missing something since I assumed that stable platform (Yes it isnt a real term, just a coined phrase most use) applied to rapid fire as it did in 3rd, and I havent questioned it until now

The rulebook states "Models carrying rapid fire weapons that wish to charge into close combat in the assault phase may not fire in the shooting phase" Period

WHere as the entry under heavy weapons states " Infantry units that fire heavy weapons in the shooting phase may not charge into close combat in the assault phase , although some rare units may be an exception to this"
Then
"Note: Vehicles, Monstrous creatures, riders on bikes (including jetbikes) and blah blah blah may fire and move with heavy weapons, etc"

I notice this as a rather massive omittance or intended change? This means that Bikes cannot fire bolters and charge, Chaos Terminators cannot fire and charge, hell even vehicles cannot charge (Dreadnoughts) if for some reason they have a rapid fire weapons

Im mainly looking for opinions from the big rule people here, like Uzi, Wolf, etc.. Please if you argue that Im quoting the rules wrong Im just going to ignore it and wait for real posts as I want to see if anyone can find me a ruling to the contrary

On another very odd note, the rulebook states
"An INFANTRY model armed with a rapid fire weapon can shoot twice at targets up to 12" away" .. What that means is that bikes, jump infantry, cavalary, etc cannot shoot twice period. I find that amusing, even if that does seem like a stupid error. Im more concerned with the rapid fire + charging.

If you read the new SM codex and look under terminator armor you'll notice that it only says they may move and fire with heavy weapons, nothing about rapid fire. Bikes have 0 mention of them either

I found this quite fascinating from a rules perspective
 
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#2 ·
Page 53 of the BGB says bikes can charge after shooting RF weps.

Page 54 says same for jetbikes.

Page 55 says that mentally challenged crisis suits can charge after shooting RF weps.

From this, I assume that Termies and walkers can do the same, though I cant find it in writing at the moment.
 
#3 ·
Originally posted by Baratos@Feb 11 2005, 21:55
I assume that Termies and walkers can do the same, though I cant find it in writing at the moment.
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You both are assuming incorrectly. The so called "stable platform" rules were present in the Trial Assault Rules, often refered to as fourth edition, but they were not carried forward into the new rules. Only those units specifically mentioned as being able to assault after rapid fire may do so, as Kirasu listed. They also lost the 'assault a different unit than you shot at' ability that used to be present in the TAR.
 
#4 ·
Ah ok thanks.. Heh I should have checked the bike entry, but since I never use bikes I rarely read that section (or see bikes for that matter).. I guess that sums that up

Still interesting to note that chaos terminators are pretty screwed by this since they get the ever powerful combi bolter which is quite amazing within 12", yet then they cant charge
 
#5 ·
FWIW - the effects of the rapid fire are supposed to be *included* in the charge bonus....
 
#6 ·
So although bikes, jetbikes, vehicle walkers and jetpacks can shoot Rapid Fire weapons and then still charge, it would certainly seem that Terminators cannot.

For Walkers, check page 63 - "...vehicle-mounted rapid fire and heavy weapons always count as stationary ... and don't prevent a walker that fires them from charging in the following Assault phase". That clears that up.

Chaos Terminators - it's hard to tell whether this is a mistake or intentional. Certainly the Chaos Codex says you can move and fire with heavy weapons, but makes no mention of moving & assaulting with rapid fire weapons. Interesting. :unsure:
 
#7 ·
If you think about it, only reason terminators can RF and shoot heavy weapons while moving is because they are in terminator armour, big heavy, attached to your body so u can cope with it, but then after shooting you probably won't be able to run up and start slashing can you? no.. that's why they can't assault, due to common sense
 
#9 ·
well, they don't go at I1 anymore. So you can't rapid fire, but you go at your normal Initiative. Just tryin to look on the bright side. :)

Justin
 
#11 ·
Originally posted by chomolungma@Feb 12 2005, 14:58
You are wrong about Thousand Sons.

Read pages 36 and 75. ("shooting and assaulting", "slow and purposeful")
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U r right.

would have been nice if they put that note under the rapid fire weapons, since they did in the heavy weapons section.

So hurray for the thousand sons, they can rapid fire, assault, and get to go at their initiative, can't wait to fight them again. 8)

Justin
 
#12 ·
4thEd page 36, "Declare Charges", right column, "Shooting And Assaulting", second paragraph: "Note:..." mentions both Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons... However, for this to apply to a unit it of course needs to be stated in the unit description that they indeed are "stationary".

Can't say for certain in regards to (Chaos) Terminators... Haven't seen the new Codex wording for them yet.
 
#13 ·
Originally posted by Uzi-99@Feb 13 2005, 10:39
4thEd page 36, "Declare Charges", right column, "Shooting And Assaulting", second paragraph: "Note:..." mentions both Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons... However, for this to apply to a unit it of course needs to be stated in the unit description that they indeed are "stationary".

Can't say for certain in regards to (Chaos) Terminators... Haven't seen the new Codex wording for them yet.
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that is a big no on the terminators. THey can only move and fire heavy weapons.

Checked both SM and CSM codex'.

I was saying hurray for the thousand sons because the rubric marines have slow and purposefull.

Justin
 
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