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  1. #1
    Senior Member Sithlet's Avatar
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    I got a question regarding instantkills and invulnerable saves. I assume a model still gets an invulnerable save against an instantkill shot, since the rules state invulnerable saves can always be taken, and the instantkill rules don't state anything about disregarding invulnerable saves, like some weapons do. So, assuming that's correct, does the model instantly die if they fail (I think they do), or do they just take a single wound? This came up when I was playing the other night, so I was just wondering.


    Thanks!

    Sithlet

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  3. #2
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    Instant kill by itself does not ignore any saves, not even armour saves as explicitly stated in the respective rules (weapons which cause instant death usually just happen to be low AP or power fists, correlation does not equal causation). But you're right, if you fail the saving roll the model is dead.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Invulnerable saves and insta kill have nothing to do with ecah other. If something instakills you, you still get an invulnerable save. If you pass it, your fine, if not, your insta-killed.

    Cheers!
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  5. #4
    Son of LO Uzi-99's Avatar
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    Third times the charm:

    As said, Instant Death doesn't affect saves in any way. You get whatever Armour, Invulnerable or Cover save You'd normally be entiteld to.

    The weapon in itself might negate saves due to AP or special rules, but this has nothing to do with Instant Death.

    If the save is failed (or negated), Your model suffers Instant Death.
    "The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."

  6. #5
    Senior Member Jodfrey's Avatar
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    I thought if the weapons AP value was greater than the armour save, you couldn't use your armour save as it automatically punches a hole straight through it. eg meltagun AP1 against SM armour save 3, because AP1 is higher than an 3+ Armour save.

    I understand you can use a cover save instead of your armour save, as it automatically fails, and same with the invulnerable save, but you can only choose one save type roll per wound - is that right?

    But if you have no cover or invulnerable save (just for arguments sake) and your armour save is negated due to greater AP value of weapon, does that cause Instant Death?
    Space Wolves are badasses that operate just barely within the rules.
    13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be.

    ... and Daemonhunters make it three - now just need a spare room to store it all!!!

  7. #6
    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    I thought if the weapons AP value was greater than the armour save, you couldn't use your armour save as it automatically punches a hole straight through it. eg meltagun AP1 against SM armour save 3, because AP1 is higher than an 3+ Armour save.

    I understand you can use a cover save instead of your armour save, as it automatically fails, and same with the invulnerable save, but you can only choose one save type roll per wound - is that right?

    But if you have no cover or invulnerable save (just for arguments sake) and your armour save is negated due to greater AP value of weapon, does that cause Instant Death?
    again this has nothing to do with instant kill. if a weapons ap value is lower or equal to your save you don't get the save. if its higher then you still get your save. when people said that the two were unconnected the were reffering to weapons with high strength but high ap as well, such as a venom cannon, which on your TMC's has a good chance of inflicting instant death on SMs but would still allow them their power armour save.

    yes thats right, you can only use one type of save per round. unless its a "feel no pain" save which can be taken after an armour/cover/invulnerable save. (provided the weapon strength isn't twice your toughness)

    in answer to the second question yes, with no cover save or invulnerable save and if your armour is ignored when you are hit by a weapon whose strength is equal to or greater than twice your toughness you'll be instant killed. however if you did have a cover or invulnerable save but failed it you'd also be instant killed.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Jodfrey's Avatar
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    That's the bit i had forgotten, the weapon strength being twice your toughness.

    Cheers for that.
    Space Wolves are badasses that operate just barely within the rules.
    13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be.

    ... and Daemonhunters make it three - now just need a spare room to store it all!!!

  9. #8
    Senior Member Sithlet's Avatar
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    Ah, thanks for the clarification everyone.
    Sithlet

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    Member l192837465's Avatar
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    well, think of a krack missile for a better idea.. say it was fired at a terminator special charector with 7 billion wounds and t4. the krack missile is AP3. so he still gets his 2+ armour save. but if he fails it, the s8 is double his t4 and he goes *splat*. similarly, say a plasma gun is fired at the same charector. now his normal save is gone, so he has to make a 5+ invul save. but if he fails it, he only takes a single wound because plasma is s7 v t4.
    "how many autocannon shots at my deamon prince?"
    "11 guns... im consolidating my army because nothing else can hurt it."
    '' that seems excessive"
    "not when you think about the damage that damn monstrosity will enact upon my feeble weakling humans. FIRE THE REALLY BIG GUNS!"

  11. #10
    Senior Member bonekrusher's Avatar
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    I think you are missing point still. Instant kill only come in effect when the target has more than 1 wound. For example standard SM fails his save then he is dead period. Instant kill has nothing to do with it. Now change that to a chaos Obilterator which has toughness 5 but for instant kill tougness 4 (like bikes with toughness 5 but for instant kill only a 4). Plus it has 2 wounds and save of 2/5. So you lasercannon shoots at me and wound it. The obilterator gets to save on 5 only because the lasercannon is ap2. The obilterator has invulnerable save of 5. So he rolls and misses his invulnerable save. So now he has 1 wound out of 2 but the lasercannon str is 9 and it does double the toughness of 4 for instant kill. So now it is dead. That is where instant kill matters.
    By the way I only know that terminators only have 1 wound unless it is IC.
    bonekrusher

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