Deep Striking Clarification - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Sithlet's Avatar
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    In the rules for Deep Striking for units in the BGB, it says you place one model of the unit, scatter it, and then place the remaining models in concentric circles around the model in base-to-base until either there are no more models or a circle cannot be formed due to table edges, enemies, etc. If they cannot be place in the circle, then any surplus models are lost. This come up in a game last night, when a Necron Lord used veil of darkness to leap across the table to my table edged. He scattered badly and was pretty much on the edge of the table. Three necron warriors were placed around him, and then the first circle couldn't be completed any further. Here are the two interpretations:

    1) My interpretation was that since the first circle could not be completed, all surplus models were lost, meaning ALL models he hadn't placed. In other words, the Lord and the three necrons already placed remained, while the rest of the unit was lost.

    2) He and a few friends' interpretation was that the only models lost were the ones that couldn't be placed to fill in a circle. I.e, since the first circle was missing 2 necrons to finish the circle, they were lost. Then, he continued to place necrons in the second ring, which then went until the reamining ones would be off the edge, which he also said were lost.

    I let him go with interpretation 2, since it wasn't a huge deal, since they had deepstriked near a dread and tactical squad that were about to finish close combat and consolidate into the new squad, in addition my chaplain being nearby (they ended up getting pretty overwhelmed and veiling away from my corner again, towards my other friend playing tyrranids in the other corner). My friends and I have slowly been playing increased points games, and this is the first game any of us have really used deepstriking. However, losing 3 units from a squad versus keeping only 3 units in the squad is a pretty huge difference, so I just wanted to clarify this.

    Sithlet

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Plasma Catcher's Avatar
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    I have alwys interperated the rule as your friends do. This is because they describe the set up first. And then specify that those that are within 1" of an enemy etc are removed.
    I did read the rule again and I definately see where you are coming from. The wording of 'any' and 'surplus' have confused me. I'll be interested to know the actual rule also.
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    Master of the Ravenwing Anacron's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd say number 2 as well. But I'll admit it's not clear. :closedeyes:
    All the old Specialist Games resources are currently being uploaded at the Tactical Command forums, and you can find them here: http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/.

  5. #4
    Son of LO Uzi-99's Avatar
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    The take I've usually seen used is number 1:

    If You can't complete a circle, then surplus models are destroyed.

    Any models not already on the table are surplus.

    You do not get to make incomplete circles and argue that only the models You can't place are "surplus".


    Then again, I must agree that GW could've definitely worded this rule more clearly, since it doesn't explicitly state that You couldn't place multiple incomplete circles.
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  6. #5
    LO Zealot WolfRaider's Avatar
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    I always went the way Uzi-99 said. As soon as you can't complete a ring, everything else is lost. I never even thought of loosing portions of several rings until this post.

    I could see them being transported already in formation, concentric rings, and when they materialize on the ground the areas of the pattern that are no go zones simple fail to materialize. Sort of like taking a section out of the pie.

    Guess it would be good to add to the list of 'Things to Ask Your Opponent' before the game.

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    Senior Member justinb67's Avatar
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    I think it is #1 guys, I'm with wolf and uzi, that is the way the rules are worded. The point of it is to not get brave with deep-striking units, you never know what will happen, and stand a good chance of losing the squad or a bulk of it.

    How do you know how many models are surplus using the other method? Sure the first circle is easy, but now, how many models was that for the 2nd circle? it would be way too easy to lose track, since you can't actually make the circle where your guy is (since it is the table edge). If you can't complete the circle, then taht is it. Just tell him to be more carefull with that veil, it can kill you.

    Justin
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    Senior Member Sithlet's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input. Should help clear things up next time around.
    Sithlet

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    LO Zealot Ostsol's Avatar
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    A somewhat related question:

    The deep-strike states that if a circle cannot be complete because the next model will fall into impassible terrain, off the board, or within 1" of an enemy model, the remaining models are lost and counted as casualties. The movement rules state that a model may not end its move in the same position as another model. As such, my understanding is that those deep-strike rules also apply to friendly models. If a circle cannot be complete because a friendly model is in the way, the remaning deep-striking models are lost. Similarily, if the first model scatters onto a friendly model, the entire deep-striking squad is lost.

    Is the above interpretation correct?

    This matter came up when discussing a deep-strike that could have potentially landed the model amonst a friendly squad. Since the deep-strike rules do not specifically mention friendly models, there was room for argument.


    One more question:

    The new rules do not mention difficult terrain as being hazardous to deep-striking models. However, most models that can deep-strike must make a dangerous terrain test when ending a normal move in difficult terrain. Must they also make such a test if they deep-strike into difficult terrain?


    (Bleh. . . I ended up using the term "deep-strike" in almost every sentence.) :hmm:
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  10. #9
    Senior Member justinb67's Avatar
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    first off, there is no penalty to deepstriking in d.terrain.

    As for the friendly models, here is my take on it.

    You can interpret the rule both ways. By the letter of the rules you are correct, that friendly models are impassable, and therefore would kill your own models deepstriking.

    What I do is move my guys out of the way of deepstrikers, and my reasonings are this.

    1st - the reason models die when they d.strike too close to the opponent is because they are shot/stabbed/killed by the enemy models before they can land/gather their gear/get ready for action. Of course friendly models wouldn't do that.

    2nd - The deep-strike rule *specifically* states that you lose models when you "come within 1" of the enemy, entering impassable terrain, or going off-table". Since they specifically worded just enemy models, then I believe this to be their intent. I know that you treat friendly models as impassable terrain and all, but it just doesn't make sense.

    Also, FWIW, here is a quote off of www.ctansupportgroup.com from a hobby specialist when the same question was asked about the veil

    Hello There,

    In reply to your email about the Veil of darkness, You do have a valid point as what should happen.
    basically if you scattered into your own men you would place the first model exactly where it scattered and form models around him, and moving the appropriate models around as well.
    Also it's probably worth reading on page 84 of the main 40k rulebook if it would help.

    I hope this helps.


    Cheers, hear from you soon,

    Sunjeev

    Games Workshop Hobby Specialist

    So, there is my argument.

    Justin
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    Latest Victims
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  11. #10
    Senior Member justinb67's Avatar
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    also this is a follow up question on the same thread answered by a hobby specialist

    Hello.

    I just have one little question... What happens if I would scatter ontop of one of my own vehicles when deep striking? Do I move the tank, or do I move the deep striking models to the closest place they can deploy? Or does something else happen?

    Thanks.
    Hi

    I've had a look through the rulebook and it doesn't quite cover this scenario. I would have to say in my opinion as a Hobby Specialist I would move the unit that is deep striking. This would be the simpler option as moving a tank could change its line of sight for weapons or put it in or out of cover.

    I hope this helps but if you have any other queries please don't hesitate to get in touch again.

    Cheers, hear from you soon,

    David McCurdy

    Games Workshop Hobby Specialist
    Justin
    Wednesday nights at GW (Ontario Mills in Ontario, CA)
    W/L/T
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    Latest Victims
    4-7-05 - SoB 1200, S&D Omega, Opponent was new.
    4-7-05 - ME! Chris beats me again with his space wolves (he is a good palyer without his eldar).

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