Blast Weapons & Multiple Squads - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Ostsol's Avatar
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    Blast Weapons & Multiple Squads

    In 3rd Edition when a direct-fire, non-barrage, non-ordnance blast weapon was fired at a squad, one could place the template such that multiple squads were hit. Of course, the defender had the option of moving the template to anywhere in the squad such that the same number of models from that squad that were originally under the template are under the new position.

    Now, however, the template does not get moved. To prevent potential "sniping", models may be removed from anywhere in the squad. However, what if the template is placed such that models from multiple squads are under it? Which of the following do I do?

    1) Find out how many models are hit and wounded in each squad and remove models from each squad.

    2) Find out how many models are hit and wonded in total and remove that number from the squad that was targetted.

    3) Find out how many models in the targetted squad were hit and wounded and remove that number. Models from other squads are completely ignored.

    4) Something else. Do tell.


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  3. #2
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    #1. The only way to snipe targets w/ the blast templete is with the necron monolith (as per the faq). You would count hits for each squad, roll wounds, then saves. remove from each squad.

    note, you cannot place a templete such that it would hit anyone in your squad, unless it scatters there.

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    #1, although with the new rules and centering the template on a specific model you'll be lucky to get 2 models in the same squad under it, let alone 2 different squads. Since the blast template only has a 1" radius, and models can be 2" apart and still retain coherency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvang
    #1, although with the new rules and centering the template on a specific model you'll be lucky to get 2 models in the same squad under it, let alone 2 different squads. Since the blast template only has a 1" radius, and models can be 2" apart and still retain coherency.
    Well 1.5" radius, but yeah I've definitely found the small template useless against all but one opponent (who has a bad habit of packing his models into really tight formations). Still, there are regular blast weapons that use the ordnance blast template, such as the Barbed Strangler or the Tau Railgun. . .

    In general I dislike the new template rules, but the matter of hitting multiple squads I find very odd. It's very inconsistant with the intention of preventing sniping. The way it is now, one could fail their target priority test and place a template such that it affects not only the squad they shot at, but a squad behind it. A worse case is where the template might fall over both a model from the squad and a nearby independant character that is not joined to any squad, but with this interpretation it will still get hit.

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    Honestly, the more I think about it and the more I read about it in the rules ... I think casualties only are removed from the target unit.

    I want to revise my opinion to be answer #2. You still find out how many models are hit. The rules state:
    "The defending player may remove casualties from the unit as a whole, not just from models underneath the Blast Marker."

    I read "the unit" as the targeted unit (since that was what was referred to just prior). Thus, all casualties may be removed from anywhere in the targeted unit (defender's choice), even if it hit multiple squads (or squad and IC).

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    LO Zealot Ostsol's Avatar
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    I'd say that makes more sense. It prevents a sort of "sniping" and bypassing of other rules that #1 would allow.

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    Hmm. . . I just thought of something that confuses the whole issue again. . . :rolleyes:

    What if one shoots a blast weapon at a lone independant character and the blast template also falls over another squad? Let's say that the IC is hit as well as two models from that other squad. That's a total of three hits.

    Using #1 it all works out. The IC receives a hit and the squad receives the other two hits. However, #1 has the problem that allows it to hit models that the shooter would not otherwise have been able to aim at.

    Using #2, would the IC take three hits? All of a sudden, that blast weapon is -very- powerful indeed!

    Using #3, that particular situation works out alright. The IC takes a single hit and everything's fine. However, this interpretation raises another concern.

    If a player decides to mesh two squads together such that they both occupy the same area of map, #3 is very benificial to them indeed and quite exploitable. A blast weapon will only hit one squad despite covering multiple models from both squads. #2 handles this situation better, at least making sure that one squad pays dearly for being so closely packed with another squad. #1 handles this situation the best, dealing damage exactly where it is due. Unfortunately, both #1 and #2 have their own issues in other situations.

    Of course, if there is a limitation whereby each model may only take a single hit from a blast weapon, #2 fits best for all situations.

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    Technically, by the rules, it says something like, "The defender may remove casualties from anywhere in the unit."

    I'd like to stress the MAY, and restate the wording indicates that "unit" implies the targetted unit.

    What if one shoots a blast weapon at a lone independant character and the blast template also falls over another squad? Let's say that the IC is hit as well as two models from that other squad. That's a total of three hits.
    Thus, in your first scenario, I'd say the defender can choose to have the wounds occur on both IC and the other unit struck, or choose to allocate any or all wounds onto the IC (since he is the targeted unit).
    Thus, the defender chooses: 1 hit to IC and 2 to other unit, 2 hits to IC and 1 to unit, or 3 to IC.

    If a player decides to mesh two squads together such that they both occupy the same area of map,
    Same situation. Squads A and B are intermingled, or close together. Squad A is targetted. The shot hits 3 of squad A and 3 of squad B. Defender chooses which squad takes casualties. Never less than 3 on squad A (since it was the one targeted, those 3 hitting squad A can't be "recallocate" to squad A.. they're already hitting it), up to the full number of wounds delivered by the attack. Thus, all 6 wounds could be removed from squad A (any models in range and LOS) leaving squad B unharmed.

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