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Hi. I was playing against my friends Black Templar Space Marines the other day, and I think he was rolling his armor saves incorrectly against me. Here's an example situation that occured where I think he was rolling incorrectly.
He has a 15 man squad (10 Marines, 5 Scouts) that is walking up the field toward me. I am blasting away at it with my squads, killing a Marine or two here or there. I whiddle the squad down so there are eight men left (four Marines, and four Scouts). In the next turns rapid fire, I cause eight wounds.
I thought the rules stated that you test off of majority toughness and saving throw for the entire unit, and in the event of a draw, the lower is used. Saving throws would be used at the majority and any failed saving throws HAVE to come from the unit type who save is being used. So in my above example, he would have to throw eight saves as 4+ saves, taking casualties from Scouts first. However, if he were to fail five saving throws, he would lose all the Scouts, and one Marine, even though the Marine has 3+ armor, he has to test on 4+ because that is the majority. Likewise, if he had five Marines and four Scouts, and I made him take eight wounds, he would throw eight saves as 3+ armor (because the Marines outnumber the Scouts), but if he managed to fail six of those save, he would lose all five Marines and one Scout (even though the Scout tested with 3+ armor).
The way he was doing it was this: He counted his men, acknoledged that there were the same number of Scouts to Marines, so he then threw four saves using 4+ armor, and then four saves using 3+ armor. He then plucked casualties from both groups based on his losses.
He explained that if, say, I only caused three wounds, they would have to be made on 4+ armor, because they are the majority armor save at that point, but he always gets to throw the saving throw at the model's actual armor save value.
Am I right or is he right? I'm sure some of you Marine players would be familiar to this and know the correct way.
This should be posted in the rules section.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
He did it correctly. The mixed armour rules tell you how to distribute wounds to the various armour saves in a unit. It is entirely different than the rules for majority toughness and weaponskill.Originally Posted by MobiusPrime
Ostsol and Your opponent are correct.
Mixed Armour (4thEd p76) only affects wound allocation and, by extension, casualty removal... The models always get to roll their own saves.
Majority Toughness and WS are quite different... Page 23 for Toughness: Shooting, 40 for WS: CC and 41 Toughness: CC.
Last edited by Uzi-99; March 31st, 2005 at 19:00.
"The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."
Mixed armor uses majority to just dictates which models have to save (and hence remove models) first. Each model still uses its own save. The worse armor save in ties is due to picking off targets.