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here are a couple of rules questions that came up during the student nationals. can someone help answer them please?
1. a d-cannon fired at my falcon and inflicted some glancing hits. (it moved over 6")
now on the d-cannon rules it says roll all damage on the ordnance table, but the rulebook states that all hits regardless of source would be glancing. i said that they should be glancing, my opponent said ordnance and the judge told us to roll for it (i won) but what should happen?
2. a crisis team of 3 suits and 2 drones was wounded by 6 reaper missiles. somehow my opponent ended up with 2 wounded crisis suits (instead of just one unwounded one) due to "a special tau rule". can someone please help and explain how it works?
3. and above half strength squad of fire dragons sat in a falcon (undamaged) at the end of the game over the centre of the table in a take and hold. should both falcon and dragons fire count for victory points? the judge said that the fire dragons don't count as they are not physically on the table but couldn't substantiate this from the rulebook.
1. I believe that the "Skimmers Moving Fast" rule takes precedence here. It overrides the AP 1 always penetrating rule, so it makes sense that it would override the D-cannon's special rules. Eldar are advanced, but not above the rules of the game.
2. Tau used to have a special rule in which you had to kill all the drones before you could even tough the suits. Now, they just follow the majority armor and toughness rules. What should happen is that since the suits are in the majority, they would take the first three wounds, then the two drones would take the next two, leaving one spare wound going back onto the crisis suits (everyone's been wounded once, goes back to majority). Therefore, the crisis suits suffer four wounds, the drones two. In the rules for multi-wound creatures it states you have to remove whole models when possible, so yes, he should have had one untouched crisis suit left after you shot him.
3. I think the judge doesn't like you on this one. The only time a unit doesn't count as "on the battle field" is when they're in reserve (deepstrike or otherwise), fleed off the board, or dead. Just because they're hovering in a transport doesn't mean they're not "on the battle field". Both the dragons and the falcon should have counted for victory point purposes.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.
1. "Skimmer Moving Fast" overrules.
It doesn't matter what the type of Penetrating hit is, it's still reduced to a Glance... Logically (and ruleswise), even the most devastating of weapons can at times only inflict minor damage.
2. No such rule, at least Tau-specific. Wounds would've been dealt according to the 4thEd Majority Toughness and Mixed Armour rules.
If his Crisis were identical, then one would've been removed as a casualty as per the rules for casualty removal and multiple wounds.
If one had a Shield Generator and failed its Inv save, while the other didn't have a ShdGen in the first place, the situation would've been hairier since the models used different saves and I would've ruled that there could be two wounded, otherwise similar models.
Note that my take differs slightly from the rulebook version, where the wounds are divided purely based on Armour saves (though all types of saves can be taken). If You choose to use the straight rulebook version, that would result in one of the Crisis being removed as casualty since the models had equal Armour saves.
3. I can't substantiate my claim either, but I'd say he was wrong: Models in transports most definitely are "on the table" and should count for all points and purposes they normally could, since they're immediately available and usable by You if You so choose.
IMO "Off-table" is a reference for when the opponent has forced Your models to leave the table.
I'm on some uneven ground on a few of these, so I hope WolfRaider will come and give his opinion.
"The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."
Since the other two seem to have been pretty much answered, I'd say that for 3., you definitely got shafted. There's no reason for you to not have gotten credit for the models in the transport. If the're not on the field, there should be no way for them to be hurt/damaged/etc -- I mean, they're not on the field, so what would hurt them? Clearly, though, they can be hurt by a penetrating vehicle destruction, etc. Bad ruling, in my opinion.
Tau indeed have a special rule that lets drone take hits. HOWEVER, GW has refused to post a rules clarification to the tau drone rule and thus you must use the Majority Toughness rule/Mixed armor rule. So yes, there is a rule but no, due to GWs inability to make rule decisions it cannot be used still (Going on 6 months now)
3) As others have said you were wronged. There is no such rule and any models in a transports definatly count towards victory conditions. Im saddened that a judge (not surprised tho) would make such an abstract ruling like that
well he didn't actually make the ruling. he said thats what would happen so i gave him the rulebook and told him to find out where it said that.
eventually he tried to cover for himself and said "i think we should let him have that..." but arguing with him about it hurt my sportsmanship points.