Reconciling CSM Codex printings

[Playa]

Hey,

This topic came up on a lesser forum ;- )

The gist is that GW quietly altered three printings of Codex: CSM.

To bring everyone up-to-date, here're the initial findings:

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Reconcoling the three variants of Codex:CSM
- Gubbins/ Phreakstyle


1. Pg 14 (armoury)
-->combi-bolters (all types) and lightning claws now have a '*' beside the heading
instead of the points cost.
-->Servo-arms are no longer listed in the wargear section.
-->Juggernaut of Khorne now costs 35 pts instead of 25.
-->The talisman of burning blood is now changed to 10/5 pts.

2. Pg. 27 Obliterator's toughness has been changed to 4(5), thereby making them insta-killed by weapons str 8 or higher.

3. Pg. 47 (Book of Khorne-Armoury section) Axe of Khorne now costs 20/15.

4. Pg. 47 (Book of Khorne-Vehicles of Khorne) The defiler may no longer be given
the destroyer upgrade.

5. Pg. 48 (Book of Khorne-Berserker Glaive) Add the sentence 'cannot use any
special movement modes'

6. Pg. 51 (Book of Nurgle-Nurgling Infestation) It has been totally reworded. Basically it
says the nurglings on the host still count as nurglings for making attacks and don't get
any of the host's abilities.

7. Pg. 51 (Book of Nurgle-Nurgle's Rot) Changed to make any followers of a Nurgle-marked
unit immune to it's effects.

8. Pg. 56 (Book of Slaanesh-Sonic Weaponry) The doom siren now reads "In close combat, a
model with a doom siren will strike first regardless of cover or weapons as waves of sonic
energy buffet and confuse their enemies. If fighting models who also always strike first, then
roll a d6 to determine priority."

Page 12: Under fearless units they auto pass pinning tests as well

Page 12: Summoning daemons 1st sentence of second paragraph now reads

“Starting with the second game turn roll a D6 for each Daemonic Unit at the start of the
Chaos turn before placing any other newly arrived models�

Page 13: Daemon weapons under the unique weapons heading an additional sentence
has been added that states:

“Daemon weapons carried by special characters do not count towards this limit. Only weapons
from the Daemon weapons section of the armoury or those listed as such in the Books of
Chaos, count as daemon weapons�

Page 14: Power Fists, power weapons, All veteran skill apart from infiltrate, move through
cover and skilled riders can be used by models in terminator armour.

Page 16: Limits: It has had the following section added:

“unless specifically stated in the rules for the item. Marks of chaos and items from the
weapons and psychic abilities and equipment sections of the armoury do not count towards
the wargear points limit. With the exception of psychic powers all wargear and equipment in
the Books of Chaos count towards the daemonic Gifts points total.�

Page 16 Bionics: the ‘favour of Khorne’ mentioned in the description has been changed to
‘Feel no pain’

Page 16 Terminator Armour: The following sentence

“Any model in terminator armour has a 2+ armour save, a 5+ armour save invulnerable save
and adds +1 to its attacks characteristic.�

Now reads

“Any model in terminator armour is capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons, has a
2+ armour save, a 5+ armour save invulnerable save and adds +1 to its attacks
characteristic.�

Page 47: Blood Frenzy under the exceptions for blood frenzy roll models with daemonic
speed or daemonic steed are also included

Page 59: Blasted Standard this now acts as an icon for daemon summoning

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HTH


Playa

[Deep_inferno]

You are most obviously looking at two different versions of the codex, look inside the front pages of the two codexs and find the copyright section (usaly in very small typing) and check the date there, the one with the higher date is the one you should be using.

[Kirasu]

I suggest reading the 3rd edition Chaos FAQ, it will answer all your questions. Its 16 pages tho so have fun

Remember, 4th edition FAQs dont have all the answers, they are designed primarly to help you adapt your codex to 4th edition rules not reanswer the old questions again

[Tomjoad]

Originally Posted by Kirasu

I suggest reading the 3rd edition Chaos FAQ, it will answer all your questions. Its 16 pages tho so have fun

Remember, 4th edition FAQs dont have all the answers, they are designed primarly to help you adapt your codex to 4th edition rules not reanswer the old questions again

Do you have a link to 3rd edition FAQs?

[Uzi-99]

Originally Posted by Tomjoad

Do you have a link to 3rd edition FAQs?

--- Unfortunately, GW took them down a while back... In printed form, that same FAQ has been published in CA 2004. It is essential unless one has the most recent print of the Chaos Codex. Easiest way to do this is to take Your old Codex to the store, compare it with the Chaos Codex there. If Your old Codex lists some of the stuff wrong (like Obliterator Toughness), then Your Codex is old.

Not much You can really do except buy either CA2004 or the new Codex, since the old FAQ is gone... You could also send GW a couple of requests for the old FAQ listing the typos, and see if they can conjure it up somewhere.

[Playa]

Originally Posted by Uzi-99

--- Unfortunately, GW took them down a while back... In printed form, that same FAQ has been published in CA 2004. It is essential unless one has the most recent print of the Chaos Codex. Easiest way to do this is to take Your old Codex to the store, compare it with the Chaos Codex there. If Your old Codex lists some of the stuff wrong (like Obliterator Toughness), then Your Codex is old.

Not much You can really do except buy either CA2004 or the new Codex, since the old FAQ is gone... You could also send GW a couple of requests for the old FAQ listing the typos, and see if they can conjure it up somewhere.

Hey,

I don't know about you, but I don't think I should have to buy FOUR 3rd ed C:CSM.

*One* should be sufficient. I've already had to buy_two_due to v3.5 being published.

Errata should be provided *free* by the people who took my money for faulty merch.

I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. And would you look at that:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
Codex Chaos Space Marines FAQ Update (v4.2)

Just got this from Pete Haines; it will appear in a proper PDF shortly but he wanted to get it out to folks ASAP. Note the Doom Siren bit especially. As a side note, we will be working to get details of what changes in each printing of a book (Warhammer too) posted up so that folks can pen & ink their existing books as needed. Or go out and buy new ones, that works for me too
-Tim Huckelbery

Chapter Approved – Codex: Chaos Space Marines FAQ (V4.2)

Using the Codex with Warhammer 40,000 revised rules

Since the publication of Codex: Chaos Space Marines, the Warhammer 40,000 rules have been updated. This document explains how to use the Chaos Space Marines in conjunction with these changes. In due course, Codex: Chaos Space Marines will be re-worked. Until then, these notes should tell you all you need to know.

Daemons and Daemon Summoning
• Daemons that need to be summoned can only be summoned to Icon Bearers that are present on the table – they cannot be summoned to Icon Bearers that are in a transport.
• If all Icon Bearers are inside a transport or not on the table for some other reason, then Daemons may not be summoned that turn. No reserve roll is made.
• Daemons may be summoned to Icon Bearers that are engaged in close combat (though it may be difficult to place the Daemons).
• The following are classed as Daemons for the purposes of deciding if effects that apply to Daemons apply to them: Greater Daemons, Daemon Packs, Daemonic Beasts, Nurglings, Possessed, a Chaos Lord with Daemonic Stature and/or 51 or more points of Daemonic Gifts. Possessed and Chaos Lords are not summoned or subject to instability.

Veteran Skills
• Veteran Skills that are printed in the Universal Special Rules section of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook always take precedence over those printed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
• See the Universal Special Rules in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook in order to see which Veteran Skills may by utilised by a character when it joins a unit or is equipped with Followers.

Chaos Space Marine Armoury
• The following is a list of the categories in the Chaos Space Marine Armoury, and whether or not that category counts towards a character’s wargear limit or not.
- Marks of Chaos – No
- Weapons – No
- Wargear – Yes
- Psychic Abilities and Equipment – No
- Daemonic Gifts – Yes
- Veteran Skills – No
- Gifts of the Gods (including Gifts that are weapons) – Yes
- Daemon Weapons – Yes

• If a Great Unclean One has a Nurgling Infestation, the attacks from the Nurglings do not count as attacks from a Monstrous Creature.
• Gifts of the Gods weapons (Daemonic or non-Daemonic) may not be Master-Crafted.
• Special abilities that nullify the +1 Attack gained from an additional weapon can be used to nullify the +1 Attack gained by Daemonic Talons and Daemonic Venom.
• Legion-specific abilities/wargear may be taken by models in Terminator Armour unless stated otherwise, or unless that would contradict another rule. For example, models in Terminator Armour may not take Stealth Adept, as models in Terminator Armour cannot Infiltrate.
• Thralls can only move as infantry, so if a character has chosen them as followers, he could not make use of anything that boosts his speed, such as Daemonic Flight, a Daemonic Steed, etc. The only exception to this is that Chaos Spawn may be affected by the extra movement allowed by Blood Frenzy. Followers do not benefit from their masters wargear, special rules or special rules unless specifically stated.

Psychic Abilities
• If Gift of Chaos is cast through a Warp Focus, and a Chaos Spawn is created more than 2� away from the Sorcerer, simply move the Spawn into coherency with the Sorcerer.

Chaos Space Marines Army List
• Any unit that uses a special rule that also appears in the Universal Special Rules of the Warhammer 40,000 should use the rules as written in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook rather than as written in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This ruling includes Slow and Purposeful for Obliterators and Tzeentch models with the Rubric Sign, models with True Grit, etc. For example, Thousand Sons are subject to all the rules for Slow And Purposeful that are included in the Universal Special Rules section of the new rulebook, and all previous effects of Slow and Purposeful that were assigned to Thousand Sons no longer apply.
• All Chosen selected take up one Elite slot. So, a Lord’s retinue of Chosen does still take up an Elite slot.
• A Greater Daemon with a minor psychic power must roll for the power randomly.
• Vehicles may only have Chaos Vehicle Upgrades.
• Although Juggernauts, Disks of Tzeentch, and Steeds of Slaanesh are Daemonic steeds, they use their own special rules, not the rules for Daemonic Steeds.
• If a unit has a Mark of Chaos, then their transport may not be aligned to a Chaos God other than the one they follow, though it may be unaligned.
• A vehicle’s standard combi-bolter may not be upgraded – only additional combi-bolters may be upgraded.
• Obliterator Profile Correction : The first printing of the Chaos Space Marine codex had a typographical error. The correct profile is shown below.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 5 4(5) 2 4 2 9 2/5+

Night Lords
• The only Daemons that are allowed in a Night Lords army are Furies.
• Only those units that are allowed to take Veteran Skills get Night Vision.

Word Bearers
• More than one model in a Word Bearers army may have the Demagogue Ability.

The Book of Khorne
• If Destroyer is mounted on a Defiler, it has the same affect as if it were mounted on a Dreadnought (although obviously a Defiler will never be affected by Fire Frenzy).
• The point under Blood Frenzy that begins “If victorious in an assault…� should be ignored. Likewise, the reference to Sweeping Advance under the Berserker Glaive should be ignored.
• Note that the Third reprinting prevents models with a Berzerker Glaive using any special movement mode. This includes daemonic speed, daemonic flight and Chaos Marine Bikes; nor they ride a Steed.

The Book of Nurgle
• For True Grit, use the wording in the Universal Special Rules in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.
• Nurgle’s Rot does not affect Followers or models with the Mark of Nurgle, such as Nurglings, Spawn or Hounds, as they are essentially wargear.
• Chosen in Terminator Armour may take Reaper Autocannons, subject to the usual restrictions.

The Book of Slaanesh
• Each upgrade for Combat Drugs may only be taken once.
• Doom Sirens do not count as weapons in regards to the maximum number of weapons a model is allowed.
• Doom Siren upgrades on Dreadnoughts replace their Heavy Flamers.
• Models may combine Doom Sirens with Daemonic Talons or Daemonic Venom.
• The Lash of Torment is only really of use to Independent Characters. In effect, it allows a character to attack when not in base contact, something he cannot normally do (though remember he still has to be supporting a friendly model in a unit he has joined or is a part of).

The Book of Tzeentch
• The Sorcerer ability on non-character models (such as Chosen) with the Mark of Tzeentch allows these models to choose Psychic Abilities and Equipment from the Chaos Space Marine Armoury, as well as automatically passing any psychic tests. If they are then upgraded to Aspiring Champions, they may also choose from other categories of the Armoury as normal.
• All models with the Mark of Tzeentch are Fearless.
• Screamers of Tzeentch have the Furious Charge ability.
• A sorcerer may sacrifice a Thrall Wizard even if the Thall is in engaged with an enemy model, so long as the situation allows the Sorcerer to cast the desired spell.
• The Warp Blade only affects psychic abilities that need a psychic test to work – so, the Warp Blade has no affect on Eldar Warlock powers and similar powers.
• Players should use the Slow and Purposeful rules as stated in the Universal Special rules rather than the rules stated under Slow and Purposeful in the Book of Tzeentch.

Special Characters
• Abaddon’s sword is a Daemon Weapon, though it does not follow the Mastery rules for Daemon Weapons – his mastery of it is complete.
• Daemon Weapons carried by Special Characters do not count towards the 0-1 Daemon Weapon limit.


Errata addressed on the Second Printing of Codex : Chaos Space Marines
• Wargear/Armoury errata
- Servo-arm is Iron Warriors only
- Juggernaut of Khorne should be 35 points
- Talisman of Burning Blood should be 10/5
- Axe of Khorne should be 20/15 points.
- A Disc of Tzeentch costs 30 points.
• All Marks of Chaos should be asterisked as they can be used by models in Terminator armour.
• P16 Reference to Favour of Khorne under bionics should refer to Feel No Pain instead.
• P17 The Terminator armour entry should state that models in Terminator armour count as stationary when shooting, even if they move.
• P32 The line “The squad may be an Aspiring Champion� should read “The squad may include an Aspiring Champion�.
• P34 Predator Side Armour should be 11.
• P37 Maximum indirect fire range for a Defiler battle cannon is 72�
• P47 Khârn has Daemonic armour not Chaos armour.
• P60 Thrall Wizards have T3 W1.

Error in the Third Printing of Codex: Chaos Space Marines

• P56 Doom Siren. The correct wording for the close combat effect of a Doom Siren is as follows: - ‘In close combat a model with a Doom Siren will always strike in Initiative sequence even if attacking enemy in cover as the waves of sonic energy confuse and repel them. Enemy who strike first regardless of Initiative are unaffected.’
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HTH


Playa

[Holothuria]

Originally Posted by Playa

4. Pg. 47 (Book of Khorne-Vehicles of Khorne) The defiler may no longer be given the destroyer upgrade.

Someone tell me that's a joke. . . . Anyone?

Sigh. I guess I've always wondered what it would look like with a Thousand Sons color scheme.

thank you and good night

[Uzi-99]

Originally Posted by Playa

Errata should be provided *free* by the people who took my money for faulty merch.

--- This is true... I was just saying that since the corrected FAQ wasn't around, buying new stuff would be Your only option.

Scratch that: I did say You could contact GW and ask them to send You a list of the typos and such. They have been known for doing stuff like this, if the information isn't online or otherwise available.

Good to hear GW is planning to do something about it! (Y)