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I have a rules clarification question:
In CSM Possessed, it says they cannot have any veteran skills
In the Alpha Legion section of the codex, it says that "any Alpha Legion Space marine in powere armour or demon armour on foot may have the infiltration skill".
Since these rules obviously conflict each other, which one takes precedence? If I choose Possessed with d. talon, they're in power armor and on foot, and I play Alpha Legion, will they get infiltration?
the list is for those with acces to veteran skills, so the posessed rules doesn't allow them to take it
are you sure about that? I thought the legion specific rules trumps the general rules... for example:
Night Lords can take more than 0-1 Raptors
Iron Warriors can take more than 0-1 Obliterators
Word Bearers and the previous two can trade fast attack and heavy support slots for other things
Alpha Legion can take infiltrate skill for ANYONE with power armor and on foot, for 1 point and DOES NOT COUNT TOWARDS THEIR MAXIMUM NUMBER OR SKILLS.
I think from that last line it makes sense to be interpreted that ANY Alpha Legion unit on foot with power armor can take infiltration... since it doesn't even count towards taking vet skills.
That's all I'm asking. Not trying to rules lawyer it so that I can powergame, but just very confused on why they had such a specific statement on what the Alpha Legion can get (on foot and in power armor), yet it doesn't superscede the vet skill restriction when other legions supercede something even more restrictive, like the 0-1 limit.
So in short, the question is *why* and *where* does it say the vet skills can't be superceded?
P.S. Actually, now that I think about it, NOWHERE in the Obliterator entry does it even say you can't use veteran skills. So why can't Obliterators take vet skills, or the infiltration skill in the case of Alpha Legion?
Last edited by Lord Visharron; May 26th, 2005 at 16:26.
I think the possessed could use infiltration if they are in a Aplha Legion.
Choosen which are Terminator could not.
Well i would have to agree that the possessed should be allowed.
The reason is, that it does say P.40 under infiltrators: "ANY Alpha Legion CSM is Power Armor (or Deamon armor) on foot may have the Infiltrations skill at a cost of +* pts for independant characters or +* pts per other model"
So unless your Possessed have Daemonic flight, you should be able to take infiltrate.
CA 2004: Pg 90, last question on the page concerning vet skills.So we can surmise that even though the question does not deal particularly with alpha legion that alpha legion possessed cannot in fact take infiltrate.Q: If a model cannot normally take a Veteran skill do they receive any free skill relating to their legion?
Nevermore Chapter: 6200 pts; 97/49/11; Longest Streak: 9 Wins/4 Losses; Nearing Completion
Possessed may not have Infiltration, even in an Alpha Legion army. Neither can Obliterators, before anyone realizes that they fall under the same type of logic. Here's why.
Page 12 of the Chaos Codex, under the heading "Veteran Skills," second paragraph, first sentence specifies that the unit entries dictate who may and may not have veteran skills - not the Legion rules. Legion rules only ammend that rule. In order to completely replace the rule, they'd need to be much more specific than a single word at the beginning of a sentence.
"Any Alpha Legion Chaos Space Marine in power armour (or demon armour) on foot may have the infiltration skill..." (C:CSM, P.40)
Another way of refuteing this is in that, Obliderators are listed as Obliderators, not Chaos Space Marines. The same can be said about possessed.
While we're on the subject, this seems to limit the Alpha legions cheap infiltrate to only modles that are spesifily "Chaos Space Marines" ie Chaos Space Marine Units, and Chaos Havocs (If you check their unit entry they are chaos space marines, so this is ireifutable). The point that I'm trying to make here, is that it seems to disallow both chosen, and raptors from taking the cheap infiltrate (both listed in their unit entries as chosen and raptors). Previously to reading this post, I hadn't noticed that, and I had been playing with my chosen, and raptors taking cheap infiltrate. Was I in error doing so?
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
I think that they need to clear this up weather they are saying any chaos space marine, referring to the codex (maby?) may take it as long as they are in power armor or d. armor. Or if they are saying any Chaos Space Marine (reffering to the model itself). Beacause if so we cant use our chaos lord or chaos lieuts. with cheapo infiltrate.
But then they say that independent characters have a +* pts which is diff. from the rank-and-file troops.
So im pritty shure that chosen may take it. But models with d.wings or "jump packs" may not.
I hope that helps with the chosen and Rators Daedelus.
As for the legion specific rules, it all depends weather or not they overite the rules according to the baisic codex and that is the case with all the legions.
I still stand by my decision. But thats beacause the more i read the codex and such the more it makes sence (to me).
But if im proven wrong thats ok too :yes: