Steeds for Aspiring Champions - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Steeds for Aspiring Champions

    Just a quick question, could I take a unit of khorne beserkers (usual kit; MOK, chain axes) and put an Aspiring Champion on a steed such as a Juggernaught of Khorne?

    It is ridiculously cheap considering what benefits the Juggernaught has, and I've poured over the rules but it seems to suggest that as long as I stay within 2 inches of other figures I'm ok?

    I'm going solely by the fact that the Codex has a pretty picture of a "Aspiring Champion" mounted on a juggernaught? So you get Essence, Mutation, Strength and count as cavalry for 10 points cheaper than the individual items would cost?

    Taking 2 units of 8 khorne beserkers with aspiring champions in each- one on a juggernaught the other on foot in a 400 point game... seems quite brutal


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    LO Zealot Ostsol's Avatar
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    Any given model may only move as fast as the slowest model in the squad. As such, the Champion's movement and assault moves will be the same as the Berserkers'.

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    An Aspiring Champion with a Juggernaut is the only way to give them 2 wounds, and it can be very effective. Go for it I say.

    However, you have one mistake. A Juggernaut does not change the character's movement rate at all; it is not a Daemonic Steed.
    All the old Specialist Games resources are currently being uploaded at the Tactical Command forums, and you can find them here: http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/.

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    So what's the point of identifying it specifically as a steed in the codex. The way it's written alone it kind looks like a keyword bearing some kind of importance? The rulebook identifies cavalry as "...warriors riding to battle on horses, ... , demonic steeds and countless other strange creatures." The juggernaut would seem a strange creature on which the warrior rides into battle. The codex also describes it as being at least part daemon. ... so I don't know...

    Isn't great that people whose work it is to write rules sold to us for too much money can't do it better than this. Just look at the amount of threads in this forum concerning inprecise wording in the rules. *looks tired*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anacron
    A Juggernaut does not change the character's movement rate at all; it is not a Daemonic Steed.
    The first word of the description is "Steed". It would in fact change the character's movement but as previously mentioned a unit may only move as fast as the slowest model in the unit. The result is no fleet, and no 12" charge for the AC. That being said, it's 20 pts for just the extra wound. Hardly worth it, IMO.
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    Daemonic steeds from the four main Gods do not get the generic Daemonic Steed rule, only the rules listed under their God's section of the Codex (e.g. Book of Khorne). So the Juggernaut of Khorne doesn't increase the speed of your Champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lleu
    Daemonic steeds from the four main Gods do not get the generic Daemonic Steed rule, only the rules listed under their God's section of the Codex (e.g. Book of Khorne). So the Juggernaut of Khorne doesn't increase the speed of your Champion.
    Reference? Not saying that you're wrong, just want to know the source.

    I think I see where you're coming from on this, basically ignore everything in the Daemonic Steed entry after "Books of Chaos", but the entry could certainly be construed to mean that examples of the forms that steeds take are in the Books and that the specific rules from the Books are in addition to the rules in the main entry for steeds.

    The back of the BGB says that any model with a Daemonic steed is cavalry and a Jugernaught is a Daemonic Steed.
    Last edited by helotaxi; August 25th, 2005 at 03:11.
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    Check your codex. under the juggernaught, it doesn't say anything about d. speed or counts as a daemonic steed. under steed of slaanesh, it does list speed as an upgrade included.

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    The Daemonic steed entry states that there are multiple types of Daemonic steed some of which are specific to a particular god and are described in that Book of Chaos. The back of the BGB on p. 264 give unit types for existing units and model with Daemonic steed is listed as Cavalry. Not saying that that is how it SHOULD be merely that that is how it is written.
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    Daemonic Steed is a completely seperate option than a Juggernaught or any other god-specific steed.. No where in the rules does it say that all steeds move as cavalry

    Here is the key thing you are missing Helotaxi

    "...A typical daemon steed takes the form of a mighty mutated warhorse or hunting beast. It moves as cavalry and ..."

    Those are the rules for the GENERIC daemonic steed. A special chaos steed such as a juggernaught, Disc or steed of slaanesh has special rules which govern them. This is why the beginning sentence of the Daemonic steed entry says that many steeds take different forms

    In any case, the reason it has the Steed trait is because models on steeds cannot take certain wargear or other gifts and vice versa

    Remember, just because an option shares a name with a different option does not mean they share any similarities in the rules. A Daemonic Steed does what it does because that's what is in its description. This does not carry over to a Juggernaught as it has its own description

    Now if the juggernaught said "It confers all the benefits of a Daemonic Steed, plus daemonic resilience and daemonic strength" that would be something totally different, but it doesnt

    Anyway, that's how it works.. Continue on with the discussion

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