can you see into open topped vehicles? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    can you see into open topped vehicles?

    -against many armies with hordes of open topped veihicles, namely the dark eldar and orks it is very important to know which one of the masses of truks/raiders to shoot aka you want to shoot the incubi and archon raider rather than the one containing warriors. however, my oponents sometimes claim that i cannot tell which raider contains which, despite the fact that if the modles could actually fit onto the transport i could just loook at it and tell. thus my question, can i see the contents of the enemy's open topped vehicles?

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  3. #2
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    No, the "open topped" special rule does nothing in terms of visibility of the content of a vehicle.

    You can guess what is inside based on when it was deployed though.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Holy_Smigs's Avatar
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    tho,
    IIRC, when stuff explodes it'll affect the people inside.....

    either way, open topped means +1 to the resolution of damage, so they should explode faster...
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    Your opponent is very unsportsmanlike. Ork trukks and DE Raiders offer very clear visibility into what is riding on them. You're cutting your opponent a WYSIWYG break by not making them pile models onto the their Raider runningboards (the DE are supposed to be hanging on the outside of the Raiders, for crying out loud!) or into their trukks. For your opponent to try and pull a shell game with multiple transports is dirty pool.

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    But you need to realize that Raiders are moving at a high rate of speed. All you'd see is a blur as they fly by. The easiest thing to do is just remember, or mark down somewhere, which Raider was deployed where during setup. To be fair though, I've seen unit swapping happen more with Rhinos than anything else. Pop the one set up during the HQs portion and out comes a tac squad of Joes.
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    Other fast-moving models are still required to accurately represent their weapon loadouts, and these are much smaller details than models hanging on the outside of a transport. So if an opponent is able, for example, to distinguish between a melta- and a heavy bolter-equipped land speeder and make an informed decision about which to shoot, it is inconsistent to claim that a Raider is moving too fast to recognize the bunch of minis hanging on it. The DE player is being granted a WYSIWYG courtesy by their opponent. To take advantage of such a courtesy is very, very sleazy.

    Swapping is bad no matter who does it. Just because players can or do swap in enclosed transports doesn't justify doing it with open transports.

  8. #7
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGFreely
    Other fast-moving models are still required to accurately represent their weapon loadouts, and these are much smaller details than models hanging on the outside of a transport. So if an opponent is able, for example, to distinguish between a melta- and a heavy bolter-equipped land speeder and make an informed decision about which to shoot, it is inconsistent to claim that a Raider is moving too fast to recognize the bunch of minis hanging on it. The DE player is being granted a WYSIWYG courtesy by their opponent. To take advantage of such a courtesy is very, very sleazy.

    Swapping is bad no matter who does it. Just because players can or do swap in enclosed transports doesn't justify doing it with open transports.
    Agreed, swapping is bad form no matter. But....

    WYSIWYG is not a rule in the rulebook.

    First and foremost, it is only a rule used in most conventional tournies. Yes it's nice to have all your figs and models accurately depict what they have to cut down on confussion, but it's not in the rules to do so.

    Second, it is in the rules that you don't have to show your army list to your opponent.

    Thirdly, realism has nothing to do with this, as it's a game with unrealistic rules. Sure, fluff helps to understand some of it, and brings a lot of people into the game.

    Lastly, that said, I ask that my opponents label their squads with an upside down piece of paper with the vehicle number on it. Then, when they get out, show me the tag. Prevents cheating, and it's really easy. Good luck=)

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    So if an opponent is able, for example, to distinguish between a melta- and a heavy bolter-equipped land speeder and make an informed decision about which to shoot, it is inconsistent to claim that a Raider is moving too fast to recognize the bunch of minis hanging on it. The DE player is being granted a WYSIWYG courtesy by their opponent. To take advantage of such a courtesy is very, very sleazy.
    As tarzen already stated, there is no rulewise justification for demanding to see what is in an open topped transport. Wysiwyg is about equipment, not about passengers.

    When my opponents begin cramming ten marines into a rhino i will begin placing my DE on a raider. After all, i have a right to be able to see who might shoot out of the opened hatch - rhinos only don't count as open topped rulewise because marines wear power armour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAstaroth
    When my opponents begin cramming ten marines into a rhino i will begin placing my DE on a raider. After all, i have a right to be able to see who might shoot out of the opened hatch - rhinos only don't count as open topped rulewise because marines wear power armour.
    I think your thinking of land speeders. Too bad the same thing doesn't count for orks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller
    I think your thinking of land speeders. Too bad the same thing doesn't count for orks.
    Any time troops fire from a vehicle hatch and have a 4+ or worse save, the vehicle counts as open-topped in the next shooting phase. Seeing as Space Marines have a 3+ armour save their vehicles won't ever count as open-topped, whether it is a Land Speeder or a Rhino.

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