Monolith, Melta Bombs, and Powerfists - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Monolith, Melta Bombs, and Powerfists

    I found this argument on another website and just thought I would see what everyone thinks.

    Monoliths ignore bonus penetration and augmented strength. Meaning that nothing gets more than 1d6 penetration and everything has to use it's unaugmented strength. Therefore Melta bombs and other such devices only get the basic 1d6 even though it states 2d6 in the profile and Powerfists, which double the users strength, are ineffective. This also brings up an interesting point about Eldar Singing Spears. When thrown, they're treated as Str 9 weapons, but in close combat they "triple the users strength" versus vehicles and would thus be ignored.

    Discuss.

    For reference material you can go to GW's website and look at the Necron revised FAQ or Errata depending on where you are.


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  3. #2
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Sort of. You sort of have the right idea. In the Necron codex, it reads - Weapons strike with the un-augmented strength, and don't roll extra penetration dice. Key word is bolded. So you're right in the case of the Melta bombs.

    The Powerfist strikes at double the user's strength. Note - the weapon strikes at double the strength. So Powerfists still work fine. It is the same issue in the case of the Singing Spear - it, being the weapon, strikes at triple strength of the user. You take the user's strength, triple it, and that's the strength of the weapon. The weapon itself isn't gaining any bonuses; it has a set strength based upon the user.


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    Not that I disagree since I can see the argument going both ways, but don't models in CC use 'their' strength since CC weapons don't actually have a strength of their own? Meaning that CC weapons confer bonuses on the model, e.g. the Powerfist doubles the users strength, it doesn't actually have a strength equal to double the users strength.

    The text I was referencing was from the Necron FAQ found in the Necron section on GW's site, under 'The Monolith' it states "extra penetration and doubling scores are much the same thing -- Don't count any penetration of any sort against the Monolith." The only exception stated is the Turbo-Penetrator round.

    Necron's FAQ
    Last edited by thysalyx; September 28th, 2005 at 02:58.

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    i'd have toagree with everything saidthus far. power fistss and other weapons that just boost the users strength are still good when facing the monolith. however any weapon that does multiple d6 armor penetration will be nullified. ie, a chainfist will still double the users strength but will not get the extra d6 penetration against the monolith

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    I just can't bring myself to see why you guys would think that since according to the FAQ "Doubling scores = extra penertation", I would very much appreciate it if someone would help me see it from your side.

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    This topic was mulled over already. You can check out the thread here. (News on Mono vs Powerfist)

    Basically, there are four things you need to be able to make a judgement on this. The BGB's entries on Powerfists (Pages 46 and 55), The Necron Codex, the Necron FAQ, and the GW Errata for the Necron Codex. It was printed in a Chapter Approved (can't remember which one) but the only other place I could find it was the GW UK site

    Errata

    Nice of them to make it readily available.
    Last edited by Gojiratoho; September 30th, 2005 at 04:08.
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    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gojiratoho
    This topic was mulled over already. You can check out the thread here. (News on Mono vs Powerfist)

    Nice of them to make it readily available.
    Nice point=) Also need the rule book (BG where it states that powerfists augment strength (check under monstrous creatures, and their armour penetration, look at the wraithlord example)

    Not gonna go any further than that, but until GW clears it up further, it's pretty clearly laid out that powerfists, hand held singing spears, witchblades, and all the other fun stuff don't work.

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    Senior Member xrix1's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say the other thread proved that. I would state that this argument has no "winner" at the moment, nor can there be one.
    The current rules state that you use unaugmented str + 1d6, no one argues that.

    However I would say that there is currentaly no clear answer as to Power fist type weapons. Is the powerfist the weapon that is striking? As such the "weapons" strenght is unaugmented. However bonuses such as deamonic strenght or furious charge would be negated.

    The other option is that the powerfist augments the strength of the model who then attacks.

    I think both are viabile under the current wording, and without further offical word one way or the other there is no 100% answer. I personally play that powerfists work, but if my opponent thought otherwise I would just roll off with him, or come to some other sort of agreement before we started the game. I wouldn't let the silly wording get in the way of the fun of playing.

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    Personally, I agree with the two GW rules guys quoted in the other thread who ruled that powerfists etc. count vs. monoliths. While the PF strength is based on the model's strength, that *is* the weapon's strength, not an augmentation of the model's statline. This is in contrast to the SM "bonus Str on the charge" trait.

    And I'm saying this as a guard guy who has no personal stake, as Str 6 guard PFs are totally irrelevant in this case.

    Also, gang, citing another thread where you've previously offered your own interpretation of a rule doesn't prove anything. That's self-corroboration. An opinion doesn't become more valid because you agree with yourself.

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    LO Zealot Gojiratoho's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that the other thread proved or disproved the argument. As far as I'm concerned, it's still up in the air. I merely pointed to it because this issue has already been hashed and rehashed several times, the post I linked to simply being one of the newest.

    And I also provided (with thanks to Tarzen) everything that you would need to make your own judgement on the debate. I never said my opinion or anyone else's was the right one. ^_^

    Personally, I don't even use a Monolith. If I did, I would allow the powerfist to work if for no other reason than GW made the rule that possibly negates powerfists difficult for the average gamer to find. I don't know about the other US players, but I don't browse the UK site very often.
    Gyauayuayuayua! Ja! Ve vill crush da little girly men in deir little girl men awrmor! Ve vill see owur enemies driven befowur us, und hear da lahmentaytions of deir wemen. Und from owur home planet, de stayte uf Califowurnia, ve vill lawunch owur mighty offensive. Even if you kill us, ve'll be bach!! Gyauayauyauyauyau!

    -Arnoldunit Schwarzenecronegger; when questioned about the impending doom he would rain down upon the heads of his doomed enemies.

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